[bdmc]

Could someone please give me an explanation on 'what marks the competitor would loose' in the following situation:

The trial was being run under TSR22a method of marking rules.
A competitor entered the section and halfway through slipped into a deep rut with his front wheel. He landed with the majority of his right leg on the ground. His legs were still astride the machine. The handlebar touched the ground. He was able to push himself up without taking his hands of the handlebars and continued to ride the section to the end cards.
As an observer what mark would you have given him and give an explanation why/how you came to the decision.

[GIZZA5]

Whats TSR22a

Think that is the starting point? Sure all observers at all trials held in the UK haven't got a 'Scooby' what rules are what neither do the riders so what difference does it make?

Not a critisism of your post but even me haven ridden for a few years without looking at the ACU handbook .....................I would not know what TSR numbers relate to.

[muppet]

Since it was observed under stop allowed it would be a 2, 1 for the leg and 1 for the bars providing the hands stayed on the bars

[malcra]

I would say a '5', in that the machine is touching the ground and though not literally 'footing' with feet, is using part of the leg to regain balance. TSR22a Failure © seems to be the about right. [1].

Interestingly, I did find out this year, that under TSR22a, stalling the bike and footing doesn't mean an automatic 5; if the rider can still exit the section by footing, then its a 3.

[1] I've got the 2008 edition of the handbook, and i know there were a couple of changes for 2009, including taking a hand off the handlebar whilst not footing is allowed.

[CYPHER]

malcra, on Dec 6 2009, 06:20 PM, said:

I would say a '5', in that the machine is touching the ground and though not literally 'footing' with feet, is using part of the leg to regain balance. TSR22a Failure © seems to be the about right. [1].

Interestingly, I did find out this year, that under TSR22a, stalling the bike and footing doesn't mean an automatic 5; if the rider can still exit the section by footing, then its a 3.

[1] I've got the 2008 edition of the handbook, and i know there were a couple of changes for 2009, including taking a hand off the handlebar whilst not footing is allowed.

reading tsr22a now and afraid id have to disagree on both counts. if you stall whilst footing its a fail. the only thing allowed to be on the floor if you stall in the section is your tyres.

and failure 'c' he'd have to have stalled the engine.

id have called it as the original poster and given a 2 as long as he kept the engine going.

[gasgas4life]

So while on the subject on stalling when footing and saying its a five unless its only the tyres in contact with the ground, just out of interest if someone was sumped out on a log and the bike stalls would you give them a five? although their feet are on the pegs? just an interesting grey area in the rules really...

[M&S]

In 2008 TSR22a Definitions under the heading of FOOTING states that footing will have occured if any part of the riders body or any part of the machine (with the exception of the tyres and sumpshield) touches the ground or an obstacle (tree wall etc).

In 2009 TSR22a references to "any part of the machine" was removed

So rightly or wrongly using the 2009 rules the penalty would be a one for "any part of the body" touching the ground.

[M&S]

gasgas4life, on Dec 6 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

So while on the subject on stalling when footing and saying its a five unless its only the tyres in contact with the ground, just out of interest if someone was sumped out on a log and the bike stalls would you give them a five? although their feet are on the pegs? just an interesting grey area in the rules really...

The engine stops whilst ANY part of the machine , with the exception of the TYRES.

So sumped out would be 5

[Timp]

Bring back no stop. Non of this messing about with those rules!!!

[B40RT]

can you foot all the way through the section with the engine running, in neutral, for a 3 ?

[idmcc_sec]

B40RT, on Dec 6 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

can you foot all the way through the section with the engine running, in neutral, for a 3 ?

Probably........TSR22a is a mess for observers as the above posts display and as already stated seem to change on an annual basis!!!

[malcra]

B40RT, on Dec 6 2009, 09:29 PM, said:

can you foot all the way through the section with the engine running, in neutral, for a 3 ?

you wouldn't even need the engine running. Just foot through with both hands on the handlebars whilst your feet are on the ground. TSR22b every time for me, though as per the comments on the Classic Experts video this isn't without some 'interpretation', though a lot less complicated.

[bikespace]

malcra, on Dec 6 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

you wouldn't even need the engine running. Just foot through with both hands on the handlebars whilst your feet are on the ground. TSR22b every time for me, though as per the comments on the Classic Experts video this isn't without some 'interpretation', though a lot less complicated.

Bike stalls with anything except the tyres for support and it's a big fat 5. No doubt about it. Not been different for a good few years.

You would be able to push the bike in neutral with the engine running, but that engine stops and its a 5. No doubt! TSR22A c

This post has been edited by bikespace: 07 December 2009 - 10:10 PM

[bikespace]

bdmc, on Dec 6 2009, 05:54 PM, said:

Could someone please give me an explanation on 'what marks the competitor would loose' in the following situation:

The trial was being run under TSR22a method of marking rules.
A competitor entered the section and halfway through slipped into a deep rut with his front wheel. He landed with the majority of his right leg on the ground. His legs were still astride the machine. The handlebar touched the ground. He was able to push himself up without taking his hands of the handlebars and continued to ride the section to the end cards.
As an observer what mark would you have given him and give an explanation why/how you came to the decision.

It's a 3 from me (reluctantly). Handlebar for a one, and if his whole leg's been on the ground, there's no chance he's got back to vertical without at least two more points of contact, similar to dragging a foot along the floor.
I've talked about it before and I think it's a big hole in the rules. In effect, a bloke could fall off just inside the starts cards, lying on his side, shimmy his way along the whole section and through the ends cards, like a snake on his side (with his hands on the bars) for a three. Find me a rule that says otherwise.
According to the existing rules it also seems impossible to have a 5 for coming off the bike if you hop along side the bike. To be considered a failureyou have to have "BOTH FEET ON THE GROUND". Keep either foot off the ground and it's not a 5 according to the rule book!

I think it's one bit of the rule book that needs better defining.

This post has been edited by bikespace: 07 December 2009 - 10:24 PM

[Nigel Dabster]

bars on ground in fim rules is a 5