bigfoot Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Since we are on TSR22a I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on 'displacing' a marker. We use card markers mainly in Scotland and I've always taken 'displacing' as moving the card even it it wobbles by your wheels touching it. Others take 'displacing' as perminent displacement i.e moving it completely from its original position by touching it with your wheels. If the later is right the wording should be changed to 'dislodging' as its far clearer. Displacing or dislodging it by striking its support (rock or whatever) is correctly not penalised. Thought anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I don't think it mentions wheels in the definition of displacing a marker. I know some who will give a five if you stand or kick a marker with your foot. I'm sure back in the realms of time a marker was deemed to be an infinately high imaginary line from the marker upwards that both wheels had to pass inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billycraig Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Since we are on TSR22a I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on 'displacing' a marker. We use card markers mainly in Scotland and I've always taken 'displacing' as moving the card even it it wobbles by your wheels touching it. Others take 'displacing' as perminent displacement i.e moving it completely from its original position by touching it with your wheels. If the later is right the wording should be changed to 'dislodging' as its far clearer.Displacing or dislodging it by striking its support (rock or whatever) is correctly not penalised. Thought anyone? I've always taken it that if it needs putting back in or correcting by the observer then its a five. I got a five once when someone walking the section stood on one and knocked it over while I was riding. Observer said I was riding and she had to put it back in so someone had to have the five. Had another last year in which I got given a five for another rider bending a marker while I rode a section. Would be a good way to win a trial, follow your rivals around kicking markers over while they ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 A bit of gamesmanship is to make sure the observer sees you put the marker back in or straighten it if your arch enemy knocks a flag over while you are walking the section whilst they ride it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdmc Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 ACU T&E Ruling I have circulated the T & E Committee with your query and on the evidence given: 1 Mark for the leg touching the ground. 1 Mark for the handlebar touching the ground (if the Observer deemed it was beneficial to the rider). As the rider was able to get up from this position then the rider probably benefited, although only the Observer had authority to judge. How did he push himself up? If with the same leg then the there is no further penalty If he pushed himself up with the use of a hand/arm then that would be another Mark lost. The ACU does not have a rule stating failure for the handlebar touching the ground. From the evidence given there is no failure committed. The Score could be 1, 2 or 3 but we do not have the benefit of saying which as the information is not comprehensive and it is for this reason that the Observer is the only person who can decide, and his/her decision is final regarding the judgement. I hope this helps. Kind Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 A bit of gamesmanship is to make sure the observer sees you put the marker back in or straighten it if your arch enemy knocks a flag over while you are walking the section whilst they ride it!! The Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 A bit of gamesmanship is to make sure the observer sees you put the marker back in or straighten it if your arch enemy knocks a flag over while you are walking the section whilst they ride it!! Then your arch enemy 're-replaces' the flag in a dark place that needs surgical removal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 In the distant future in a galaxy far far away, on the rocks beneath the restaurant at the end of the universe while supping his pangalaticgarglebuster, Joe turns to his mate and say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinningplates Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) one for the knee and one for the bars. had a look at TSR22a and no failure for touching bars on ground as long as b ) or c ) or d ) both hands on bars, engine still running and feet stay different sides of bike. Edited December 12, 2009 by spinningplates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 In the distant future in a galaxy far far away, on the rocks beneath the restaurant at the end of the universe while supping his pangalaticgarglebuster, Joe turns to his mate and say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm with bdmc on the original scenario. As for the engine stop No marks lost providing the "foot" doesn't hit the ground. If they use a knee or elbow then it's marked as a "foot" and a five is issued. As for flags a rider has to remove them, ride over them or around them to get a five. Another rider removes them whilst standing in the section they are told to put it back and if they don't they'll get a "10". Any doubt as to who removed the flag goes to the rider I.E. no marks dropped if I didn't see who pulled the flag. I have had other riders complain about this, but as they are often the reason I couldn't see the offence, TOUGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Now the main discussion is errrr discussed, any thoughts on the scenarios below. Could you give him a 5 for any reason that's in the rule book, even though 99.99% of observers would. i know Ishy will say he gets a 10 for teckin the p*ss, but believe it or not, that's not in the rule book either, I looked. I know it's an extreme example, but shows that there is some grey area. "In effect, a bloke could fall off just inside the starts cards, lying on his side, shimmy his way along the whole section and through the ends cards, like a snake on his side (with his hands on the bars) for a three. Find me a rule that says otherwise. According to the existing rules it also seems impossible to have a 5 for coming off the bike if you hop along side the bike. To be considered a failureyou have to have "BOTH FEET ON THE GROUND". Keep either foot off the ground and it's not a 5 according to the rule book! Hop along side and you're OK for a 3?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Now the main discussion is errrr discussed, any thoughts on the scenarios below. Could you give him a 5 for any reason that's in the rule book, even though 99.99% of observers would.i know Ishy will say he gets a 10 for teckin the p*ss, but believe it or not, that's not in the rule book either, I looked. I know it's an extreme example, but shows that there is some grey area. "In effect, a bloke could fall off just inside the starts cards, lying on his side, shimmy his way along the whole section and through the ends cards, like a snake on his side (with his hands on the bars) for a three. Find me a rule that says otherwise. According to the existing rules it also seems impossible to have a 5 for coming off the bike if you hop along side the bike. To be considered a failureyou have to have "BOTH FEET ON THE GROUND". Keep either foot off the ground and it's not a 5 according to the rule book! Hop along side and you're OK for a 3?" Anybody that can shimmy/snake through a section deserves a three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivemeister Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 According to the existing rules it also seems impossible to have a 5 for coming off the bike if you hop along side the bike. To be considered a failureyou have to have "BOTH FEET ON THE GROUND". Keep either foot off the ground and it's not a 5 according to the rule book! If you dont have a leg either side of the bike (ie its not underneath you) you have dismounted and its a five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 If you dont have a leg either side of the bike (ie its not underneath you) you have dismounted and its a five. Quote a rule that says that though. I'm up for persuading, but nothing seems to state that unless I've missed it. You have to have "BOTH FEET ON THE GROUND" to be considered a failure, which sounds a daft thing to say. Not got me rule book with me, but it was a quote from the rule book in my original post. Incidentally, I agree that your description SHOULD be a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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