50 replies to this topic

[Nigel Dabster]

tricky dicky, on Apr 23 2010, 09:06 AM, said:

Obviously Bou is a major headache for the organisers but surely if the trials were layed out differently so they weren't effectively an indoor outdoors then it may close the gap. As I mentioned before they are allegedly set out for spectators but the world rounds in the 90's and even a bit later when it was stop for a 1 were attracting larger numbers and larger entries. Unfortunately due to the way the FIM has pushed trials it has fallen right into the hands of Toni Bou and its not his fault he's a lot better than anybody else. Surely if it returned to stop for a 1 and the observers policed it properly like they did when it first came out in 1998 then the sections could be made more rideable and it would attract the riders in the calibre of Oliveras etc and it would bring the results closer as if the riders were off line they could stop and just take a 1 instead of a 5. Whats wrong with having a world round in the southern mud in autumn/winter time with some big climbs?! That would be far more of a spectacle than the circus that it is and we could all relate a bit better to that.

I don't know how many world rounds you have seen lately but regardless of what was wrong with round one, every section was completly natural. Most rounds have a man made section near the start and thats it.

[sectiononecleaner]

I was thinking the same dabster. I can totally see your point of view tricky but to call it a circus im not sure what animals or clowns are supposed be performing. We gotta accept bou is miles apart and perhaps in a year or so we may have a new amazing talent who will challenge him and once again spectator interest will jump. Im really excited over whether our top brit dibs can challenge raga or can jeroni take second spot, not whether a section is more to my liking or it should be this should be that.

Do you analise the corners and the straights in F1. No you dont. So fingers crossed for an exciting season.

[Baldilocks]

I dont think Bou is a headache to the organisers

set the trial to take 20 - 30 off raga, cabs, fajardo etc, Bou will still win by 10 to 20 marks and the spectators will have had somthing worth watching. If Bou doesnt win then all the better in terms of making it interesting for the spectator, he'll still win the series.

simples !

[Nigel Dabster]

Baldilocks, on Apr 23 2010, 11:38 PM, said:

I dont think Bou is a headache to the organisers

set the trial to take 20 - 30 off raga, cabs, fajardo etc, Bou will still win by 10 to 20 marks and the spectators will have had somthing worth watching. If Bou doesnt win then all the better in terms of making it interesting for the spectator, he'll still win the series.

simples !

That would be a good start, someone needs to realise that the French hopefuls/also rans Bethune (and a few others I can't think of!), Spanish Gibert Freixa oliveras, British Morris Danby Haslam and connor could all be doing the top route if it were of a 30 30 30 hard medium easy standard and there were some kind of start money. How much better would the series be with 30 in the top route?

Bou finishes on 10 or less and these lads go home on 70? Everyones a winner.

Simples too!

[GIZZA5]

Nigel Dabster, on Apr 24 2010, 06:26 AM, said:

Bou finishes on 10 or less and these lads go home on 70? Everyones a winner.

Simples too!

Sorry ?????????????? But haven't a lot of the people on here that have been in the sport a Loooooooooooong time been saying make the sections easier to open it up to more people?

Only to be shouted down saying this is the World Championship and it should be hard?

Well it is not sustainable in its present format so maybe they need to consider this? Maybe combine the Championship Class and Juniors on eased sections and have a seperate route for the Youth Class?

[AtomAnt]

If peeps think that Bou is the problem then the answer is so simple its unreal, Instead of setting out the trial to make him lose around 30 points, set it out for him to go clean!. Then instead of him winning everything on his superior technical skill, the other main factor of any sport will play a big part which is the state of mind. Every section he will have to concentrate so much so as not to even lose one dab that it will be tense and exciting. The other competitiors have something to aim at looking for him to make a mistake that they can pounce on.
As it is now with section severity at this level, everyone else is riding for second place. Bou can make a big mistake and still feel comfortable of the win.

So i think WTC is currently one dimensonal with too much emphasis on just technical skill without considering other human (and possibly engineering) factors.
IMHO

[tricky dicky]

Dabster, I am not disputing the fact that the rounds are on natural sections, its how they are layed out thats the problem. I agree with what you say about the 30% rule with the sections and I think that should apply to every trial that is run anywhere in the world as far down as club evening trials. I like the idea of laying the trial out for say Raga, Fuji etc but in reality that wont happen, it doesnt in the BTC so it definitely wont in the WTC. In regard to the comparison with Formula 1 then correct me if i'm wrong but this year they have completely changed the rules to make it a more level playing field for the lesser lights. I watched some of the footage on youtube last night from Baiona and I really cant see why they dont just change the rules back to stop for a 1 and be done with it. How some of the sections were layed out was stupid by putting a corner in a few yards into the section and then the riders having to rush to get through the rest of the section and the sections looked pretty dodgy in places. What seems to be forgotten is that when its no stop or stop for a 1 then the sections can still be technical, they just need a bit more thought when they are layed out.

[AtomAnt]

AtomAnt, on Apr 24 2010, 08:24 AM, said:

If peeps think that Bou is the problem then the answer is so simple its unreal, Instead of setting out the trial to make him lose around 30 points, set it out for him to go clean!. Then instead of him winning everything on his superior technical skill, the other main factor of any sport will play a big part which is the state of mind. Every section he will have to concentrate so much so as not to even lose one dab that it will be tense and exciting. The other competitiors have something to aim at looking for him to make a mistake that they can pounce on.
As it is now with section severity at this level, everyone else is riding for second place. Bou can make a big mistake and still feel comfortable of the win.

So i think WTC is currently one dimensonal with too much emphasis on just technical skill without considering other human (and possibly engineering) factors.
IMHO

Looking at todays results, looks like i got my wish! Link from front page

[GIZZA5]

AtomAnt, on Apr 24 2010, 04:50 PM, said:

Looking at todays results, looks like i got my wish!

Probably quite interesting to watch too as one stupid mistake could drop you a few places? Concerntation is a must when the scoring is low, be interesting to see what the riders thought?

[jordi]

Probably a far better trial to watch, yet still took enough marks for a result.

[ishy]

A lot better, top four still at the top! and a good place to start tweaking to take a few dab's off Bou next time.
Mebe a couple of more real testers and leave the rest close to todays severity.

Probably the most complaints will come from the top few riders about it being too easy, I don't think I have ever heared of a world round being cleaned before, if not it's another first for Bou.

[Dab-man]

ishy, on Apr 24 2010, 06:50 PM, said:

I don't think I have ever heared of a world round being cleaned before, if not it's another first for Bou.

Got a feeling Dougie has gone clean for a whole World Championship event before.

[Slapshot 3]

Remember my old man "cleaning" a Wednesday evening club trial many moons ago, said it was the toughest win he ever had, next guy lost 1.

[Baldilocks]

Dab-man, on Apr 24 2010, 09:46 PM, said:

Got a feeling Dougie has gone clean for a whole World Championship event before.

he did but in was indoors

I have never lost any marks in an indoor WTC round but thats not quite the same thing ........

[Funtrials]

Patrick Smage went clean! That the SECOND time he's gotten an entirely clean sheet in his young FIM career (last time was in Youth class, 1 or 2 years ago, I think)! The boy can ride! He's so consistent, apparently. Clean trials aren't just about great ability, it's about concentration for section after section after section.

I've actually never heard of Lampkin going completely clean in an FIM outdoor world round, but I could be wrong. Anybody know when/where he did that, if he ever did?

I can't remember in the last 10 years ANY Championship-class FIM rider going completely clean in the top class at a world outdoor round. Anybody know otherwise?

ONE point is infinitely more common than completely clean, yet it's only one single point difference. Amazing, really.

I think Laia Sanz (she's in her own world relative to most ladies) has done it in high-level women's competition, but she STILL gets 1 or 2 points way way more than she would ever get a complete clean score.

I've never gone completely clean, ever. A quarter century ago I got 1 lousy point at a trial in central British Columbia, and still didn't win. I was tied on the same section, same loop, same score, and no time was kept, so we had a three-section ride-off to determine who won that trials (Bill Sparks beat me, and I'll never forgive him :-) ) Talk about tension.

Round 1 and M. Brown gets ALL FIVES (and he's a great rider...completely ridiculous on the FIM's part...if they had a thousand sections that day would he have even made one of them?.) Then round 2 and THREE riders go completely clean....sounds like the FIM needs to exert way more control over the difficulty of the sections. The hardest trials I've ever heard of followed immediately by the relatively easiest...what's going on!? I bet the controversial new rules have something to do with this fiasco? Your thoughts?

Edited by Funtrials, 24 April 2010 - 10:55 PM.