sammyd173

Good question - I really liked 42/10 gearing on the Beta. So I wondered what the equivalent would be on the Montesa. Primary Reduction Beta - 63/18 = 3.5 Primary Reduction Montesa - 3.167 So Beta has a reduction effect that is 10.5% higher, meaning it will run 10.5% SLOWER than the Montesa with the same gearing. That's about the difference of one tooth less on the front sprocket. So 42/10 on the Beta is like 42/9 on the Montesa. I think. The Montesa has a lot more power than my Beta 300 4t, so I'm willing to run this bike with faster gearing. The only time I really want for lower gearing than stock on this bike is when I'm at a dead stop and in the middle of a pile or rock and am bouncing an clutch-flicking my way out, or when the front is very high on a tricky part of a hill, from a dead stop again. But when doing an event as opposed to pleasure riding, this scenario happens to me a lot .

Thanks everyone. I get the overall impression that expert/ pro riders tend to run higher/ faster gearing than lower grade riders. Also the more grip there is, the higher the gearing, generally. We now have 6 of us in San Diego running these bikes and riding together at the weekends. Three of those bikes materialized in the last couple of months. We seem to spend most of our time trying to scare each other riding up large rocks/ slabs. Everyone is running 41/10 gearing. An advantage of keeping stock gearing is knowing what gear others are using for various obstacles/ challenges. A bit like Motocross when you are trying to figure out whether to use second or third off a jump, and you can ask your buddy what he is using. I keep telling these guys, 'Rocks for show, corners for dough!' but they're a motley bunch, so splatters and zaps is where it's at. Last time they went out - I was on kid duty - one guy dislocated his shoulder off a drop-off, and another dude who is a novice looped out and dislocated his elbow and fractured his arm in three places. Both his bikes are up for sale. No idea what gearing he was running.

First of all, there is absolutely nothing fun about gearing... With that said, I got my new (to me) '15 260 standard model a week ago. Great bike! Standard 41/10 is too fast for me. I'm 180, ride slab and sand and try to go up big rocks here in California. So then I put a 41/9 on. Too slow. 1st too slow, second to tall. Read the forums, lots of different opinions. So I tried to do some math, which no doubt someone will correct me on, but here goes. 41/10 = 4.1 reduction 41/9 = 4.56 reduction The difference between the two is 11.2%. So the massive difference you can feel between a 9t and a 10t sprocket is just 11.2% in speed. Let's say you want to split the difference - you think that's the goldilocks zone. 43/10 = 4.3 reduction. That's a 4.9% difference, i.e. a reduction of speed of 4.9% over stock. So that's what I'm going for. ==== They say taking one tooth off the front is the same as adding 3 teeth to the rear. Well maybe that's the case for street or MX bikes with much higher gearing, but my (questionable) calculations say that you need to add 4 teeth to the rear to get the same effect as reducing a tooth on the front, and vice versa. 41/9 - 4.56 reduction 45/10 - 4.5 reduction - you need to add 4 teeth to the rear. ==== Gearing as reported in the '15 manual. Primary - 3.167 1st - 2.8 2nd - 2.385 (This is a 17% increase in speed over 1st gear) 3rd - 2 (19% increase in speed over 2nd gear). 4th - 1.273 5th - 0.815 Note the LOWER the number is, the FASTER the bike is going. Let's say you want to know if 2nd gear with a 9t is going to equate to 1st gear with a 10t? Okay, I wanted to know that. Well, we know that a 9t makes the bike slower by 11.2%. So you multiply second gear on this chart - 2.385 - by 1.112 (or 111.2%). Remember, the higher the number, the slower the bike is going, so we are increasing the reduction effect. That value comes out to 2.65. This means that with a 9t front sprocket, second gear will be FASTER than 1st gear with 10t. By how much? About 6%, which is something. So there. Anyway, this is some of the logic I used to try to figure out my gearing without buying a ton of sprockets, maybe it will help someone else!

I ride on sand and rocks, no slippery stuff out here I'm afraid. I've heard the Beta grips better in the mud though but I can't comment beyond that. The Montesa, to me, seems easier to ride. The Beta feels like it has more of hinge at the front that is a little more disconnected. Put another way, there is less guesswork on the Montesa when it comes to how far the bike should be leant over in relation to how far the 'bars are turned. I weigh 180 lbs and I am picky about my suspension but I'm not touching anything. A buddy of mine also has the standard '15 and he is 220 and he just cranked more preload on the shock, and it still rides very well indeed. I would say the Montesa for me, by some way, is the better bike. I originally balked and went for the Beta because it was cheaper used, and I didn't fancy riding a bike that was essentially unchanged for years (Montesa), but it works better for me.

I just came off an Evo 300 4T, 2015, and got a '15 Montesa 260. I thought I'd share my opinions, if you don't mind... The Montesa feels heavier. Like you feel the weight picking the bike off the stand. Feels 10-15lbs heavier. BUT - when you ride it - you don't feel the weight. Why? The Montesa feels like it's two inches shorter in the wheelbase, specifically it feels like the front wheel is two inches further back (to me). This makes the front end feel very light. Add to this a much springier front fork, and more bottom end power, and she is a wheely-ing machine. On the Beta I was always hopping the rear end around because it was so hard for me to hop the front wheel. With this thing you just pick up the front and put it where you want. There seems to be more weight on the rear than for the Beta, but again with the springy shock you don't really feel it in practice. Power. The Montesa seems much more powerful than my Beta, even with 40cc's less. This must be due to the restrictive exhaust on the Beta. I've ridden a Beta with an aftermarket pipe and it blows the doors off either bike stock. Noise. Montesa is as quiet at idle, but twice as loud on the pipe. Not good. Fortunately the Montesa has so much grunt down low and revs cleanly that you can ride it a gear high and it will pull when riding around the garden. Suspension. I primarily bought the Montesa for the suspension. I ride in California on slate and rocks, and this suspension glides up everything. It's a big difference. Flame out. The Montesa flamed out the first day I got her while I was trying to wheelie-hop up my driveway. As a result I literally pulled myself straight over the bars and crashed. I fuggin hate flame out, and I don't want to turn the idle up high to avoid it. I think I'm getting used to it but the Beta never had this problem. Turning. Not sure yet. I think the Beta may have the edge. Certainly you can turn the bar's much further on the Beta. Balance. For some reason, the Montesa is much easier to static balance on, for me. Oil - Montesa has separate engine and tranny oil. What a PITA. Gearing - Montesa geared too high stock. Gear spacing seems better from 3rd-4th, though. Owners manual - Montesa has a Honda-esque manual, much better. That's all folks.

So I went back to the manual, and it said the shock spring should be 136mm in it's seat with the rear wheel off the ground. Mine was at 142mm, meaning the previous owner increased sag (almost certain he did not) or the preload collars backed out a bit. I increased preload and set the spring length to 132mm for some contrast and the back end woke up. Felt much plusher going up rocks. Bike was like a pogo when trail riding on the sand rollers so dialing in some more rebound would be my next step. I also noticed I'm on the second-to-last tooth on the snail cam/ chain adjuster, meaning my rear wheel is a long way back and therefore a lot more leverage on the shock, effectively reducing spring rate (sort of). I was going to take a link out of the chain to move the wheel forward but it didn't look like there was enough chain for this. I have a 10t on the front which moves the rear wheel back a fair bit. Thank you for all the previous replies. That article was good for balancing the bike out, but after that only covered stiffer springs and buying a new shock. Suspension seems to come down to valving 99% of the time. Cheap fixes/ band-aids are stiffer springs or oil height and viscosity. Would have been nice if they'd tested the latter two on the forks.

Wondering what you guys have done with your Evo's. I have a 2015 300 4T, non factory. I'm 6'2 and 185 lbs or 13 stone. I ride a lot of slab and rocks with plenty of traction. The shock is very poor IMO compared to the newer Montesa's. The Montesa floats up big stuff while the Beta blows through it's stroke. I had a Gas Gas before and Randy Lewis worked wonders with that shock for about $200, but his Beta solution is $700+. His solution involves a remote reservoir and increased travel. I'm sure it works great but for not much more money I could get a new Montesa (which I think is a better bike) so don't want to do that. Manual says rebound and preload on forks is all the way out for stock. The shock is all the way out on rebound stock also. Wondering if I should add some preload to the shock and forks and if that helps? I don't want to up the fork oil or viscosity(maybe height?) as I want to hop the front end around. More preload makes it harder to hop, surprisingly. Compared to the Montesa the forks bottom out badly on rocky descents and it's hard on the wrists after 4 hours of riding. Shock I could try adding more preload - has anyone done this and does it help overall? Does adjusting rebound screw also increase damping on the way down? I would think a revalve of the shock would help, but don't know who to go to. All kinds of suspension help for motocross, not so much for trials it seems.

Update: swapped slow jet from 22.5 to recommended 27.5 and the bike rips off the bottom. Very significant difference, especially when snapping open the throttle in a section and the bike responding much faster. On a side note, I tried my bike with an arrow exhaust and it's a remarkable boost in power. I didn't notice too much more noise but I bought this bike specifically for its quietness so I'm not sure if I want to take the plunge.

Hello, 2015 300 4t here. Here's something I just learned today. These switches are sticky. You have to pull up on the switch until you feel a click. This is the fast map when it's all the way up. You may notice the idle pick up. Now press down. You should hear the idle drop a tad. Press the button again for fast/ sunshine map and you likely won't notice anything as the switch will not come all the way up by itself, so give it a little pull.

I'll try that, thanks!

I have a '15 Evo 4t. I would like to play around with the shock settings but where the adjuster is installed it can't easily be reached. If the shock was spun around so the adjuster pointed to the back of the bike you could adjust it easily with the seat off. Anyone do this or know why it might cause problems?

The Beta site says the stock hearing is an 11 tooth on the front, but mine has a 10 and the original owner swears he never changed it. Must be a typo by beta then?

It's normal for these bikes but it's not correct. Popping is due to lean jetting. Try the jetting recommendations on the sheet at the start of this thread - Beta themselves are telling you what the correct jetting should be. I finally figured out where my issues were coming from. The jubilee clips are very hard to get to on the boot that goes between the air box and the carb. When sliding everything back together it's tempting to cinch up the one on the left to the air box because it's easier to get to. Don't! You have to make sure the boot is 100% flat and aligned with the carb. Do that one and then do the one on the air box, which has a lot more room for alignment. If you do the air box side first then it's a stretch to get the other side on the carb, which leads to a poor seal and rough idle, especially after you hop the back end around which shakes things looser.

Please do post back on here when you get to your carb and see where that one hose goes! For me, choke is one click out for cold starting. The engine fires in three kicks and revs immediately climb higher than I am comfortable with so I put the choke all the way in right away. With stock, leaner jetting perhaps you would pull it out two clicks? Regardless the choke will always be all the way in once the bike is warm. That spacer is a mystery. It won't raise the needle if you remove it, unlike the clip. If anything it will lessen the tension on the little spring and that's it. I'm sure it does richen the mixture some way, I just don't see how.

Here is the cap that splits. IF SOMEONE COULD TELL ME WHERE THE RUBBER HOSE TO THE LEFT IS SUPPOSED TO GO I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT! I think it just vents to the atmosphere?

I think this is the spacer:

Ok, I think my bike (2015 300 4t) is dialed in. How you know your bike isn't dialed in: 1. It doesn't start as easily as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_mTyAw0MoI 2. You can't tell the difference between the maps - poor jetting masks the difference 3. Fan never shuts off 4. Bike backfires under engine braking My bike has a 127.5 main, 22.5 Slow Jet, 60 start jet. That's how I got it from the dealer that dialed it in for a year. I'd rather have the settings on the chart to be honest as I think the slow jet is too small and I trust the manufacturer more. Anyway he also put a different CV spring in (lighter) for more snappy response, but don't worry about that. I would simply recommend the 'Competition' settings listed on the chart at the top of this thread. The 'Spacer' is simply a little metal ring on top of the Needle. Mine is still on there. I was going to take it off, but since I have a larger than normal main jet I figured I'd leave it. My bike ran poorly because the air screw needed another turn out, but more importantly the rubber cap on the kickstarter side of the bike that covers a metal vent tube from the carb had perished and split, which caused the bike to run lean. Check this. Fixing it transformed my bike. I was very daunted taking the carb out, these bikes are very fiddly and the air boots and jubilee clips are very hard to work with. I just took my time and all was good. What cemented my decision to do this was the fact that I rode a friends Montesa 4rt and it seemed much more powerful with 40cc's less!

Floater turns. When the front wheel is up in the air, you can accelarate the rotation with a combination of pulling the bike closer to your body and the front wheel higher. Similarly you can slow down the floater by leaning back away from the bike and putting the front wheel lower. A bit like when you spun around on a tire swing as kid - lean back and legs out slows you down, etc.

Subscribed to this topic. Interesting that with the much bigger slow jet the mixture screw gets turned in. Also you can adjust the screw which is a flat head with the bike in tact, it's just not easy. Also curious to learn about this spacer?

So here's a quick update - I backed out the mixture screw - no mean feat as it's under the front of the carb and almost impossible to reach - and the bike runs much better. Doesn't die when you snap the throttle open, and the fan actually did shut off at one point. As far as the erratic idle - I took too much slack out of the throttle cable. When I turned the bars to the right, the cable moved and dialed in some throttle. Loosened it and she is better now.

Glad to find this thread! I have a 2015 300 4t with supposedly 100 hours on it. I just got it, used. I live in San Diego, weather today is 79 F, 26 C. Idle is inconsistent. Helps when I turn it up, but then it can get too high. Fan never comes off after the bike is warm, even when I coast downhill for 30 secs at 20 MPH with the clutch in. Radator is clean. Not happy with how it idles, and with the fan always being on. It's pulling a lot of juice, which is think is exacerbating the problem - idle drops even more when i switch the lights on. Based on my weather and riding 0-4000 ft above sea level, do you guys recommend raising the needle and tweaking the fuel screw? The guy I bought this from is a dealer, he rode the bike for a year and said it should be perfectly set up...

Great stuff! At least once per event I miss a gate because I get confused. Closing your eyes and being able to complete the section mentally is a great idea.

Tell me more about this? So if I'm turning left, I'm pulling up on the left grip?

Lots of good stuff here! Another one I figured out recently - if you are trying to hop the rear end around, but it's 50/50 that you'll dab, release the front break a few inches before the rear wheel lands. The bike will move forward a tiny bit allowing you to correct your balance with the front wheel. Throwing the ouside knee out for balance, especially when making a tigh turn up a hill - like really pointing it out - seems to make a world of difference in the bikes ability to make the turn and for you to avoid a dab. If you are reading this you probably think you are already doing it, but make a concious effort to so and see if it helps!

Have you had any 'a-ha' moments when riding, like you've figured out something big? I've had a few in my two years of riding - I'm at clubman level now, so I thought I would share and hope others can share similar discoveries that made a big difference to their riding. 1. Unweighting the bike. It dawned on me that these bikes can go over just about everything, it's pulling us fat lugs over the obstacles that upset the bike. Unlike MX where you charge at everything, trials is generally about either getting your body over an obstacle and then pulling your bike with you, or letting the bike get onto something by unweighting yourself from it and then once it's on there, pull yourself up afterwards. There always seems to be a delay between either you or the bike initiating over an obstacle. The exception is leaning back to weight the rear or front tire to get traction. 2. Wheelies. Everyone talks about getting the front end up, rather than what to do when the bike starts falling over to one side. I have a long, steep driveway, and after months of veering off to one side or the other finally figured out what was going on. Take note of what your hands and feet are doing when the bike starts to fall to one side. I noticed that if the bike was veering off to the left, I would pull up hard on the left grip to save it - everyone does this - but I was also pushing down hard on my left peg. So pulling hard up with the left hand and actually fighting the force of my left foot/ leg pushing down also. It was incredibly hard and counter-intuitive to fix this, but you have to completely unweight the left peg and instead push down on the right peg. Voila, I can now wheelie forever! (at least up a long steep hill). When you learn this, it will transform your trials riding, as you can now correct the bike on rough uphill climbs when the front wheel is up in the air and the bike starts falling over to one side. 3. Floater turns. I see people make the mistake, as did I, of initiating an ambitious floater and you fall off to the inside. So attempt to float left, bike doesn't rotate enough, fall down to the left. So I figured out that to do a floater, a). your body stays mostly upright but you pull the bike to the side across your body with weight to the inside peg, and more critically b. you do this in such a way that you expect to 'catch' the float by then pressing down on the other peg (while now completely unweighting the inside peg) and this will make the bike go straight. So in other words, don't just try to float the front end around as far as possible - initiate the motion with the goal of straightening the bike out (upright) before the front wheel lands. How do you learn this peg weighting technique? See 'wheelies' above. 4. Turning. For the love of god, turning. Here was my mistake until last week. I would see a gnarly, tight, off camber turn. Prepare by weighting the hell of the outside peg. Go into turn, front wheel pushes, dab. So I just figured out that if you go into, say, a left hand turn, rather than pre-weighting the outside peg for traction, try initiating the turn by almost fully unweighting the outside peg and put all the weight on the inside peg. Once the bike flops over and starts to initiate the turn the way you want, shift weight to the outside peg. It's almost like a Scandinavian Flick, if you know what that is. So I guess everything to me has come down to peg weighting! I was doing some of this before, but not sufficiently. Hopefully this helps someone, hopefully not too much bad advice here. FWIW I ride in SoCal, so more traction here. Sorry for the essay. Please share similar revelations!