dan williams

Welcome back! We missed you. OK well not us specifically but someone did I'm sure.

Often this is from a bad batch of petrol.

Sillyness. If you want to grow the sport make it more accessable to the beginner. More beginners = more riders at all levels of the sport. There are plenty of used bikes that are up and down the price scale. Golf isn't huge because there is a limit to flexibility of a 3 wood shaft for the pros. It's huge because any duffer can go out and in 1/2 an hour be hacking his way through 9 holes at a local public course. Have fun, hang around the club house bar after and go home, lighter in the wallet, but not beat up. Trials will always be limited by several things. 1. Even used bikes are expensive. 2. Trials suffers from an image problem when it has an image at all. 3. Trials is a "single combat warrior" type of sport. There's no us vs. them glory aside from the usual brand sniping. 4. It takes a peculiar mentality to enjoy going out and scaring yourself at 1MPH, and doing it repeatedly in order to get better. Trials takes patience and there is a long time between starting to ride and starting to really enjoy for many people. This is why focussing on the beginner is critical. Every time a beginner is lost it isn't just one rider. It's all the riders that beginner can bring into the sport. The old timers are have a limited number of new contacts to bring in but beginners open up a whole new untapped resource for expansion. 5. Trials is a sport for control freaks. This makes organizing trials people like herding cats. Getting them to all pull together on any issue is at best painful and often impossible. We have seen the enemy and they is us. 6. Trials spectating requires work. Spectators and particularly Americans don't like to work for entertainment. There I said it. 7. Trials is not about speed and big air. Most kids like speed and big air. 8. Trials people who love the sport don't want to lose the close-knit family atmosphere. 9. Trials people are generally myopic. They simply don't understand why others can't see the sport the way we see it. Hence most marketing plans for events are completely ridiculous. Surfers think their sport is the greatest thing in the world and to them it is. Has that ever enticed you to go to a surfing competition? Using F1 as an example is interesting because F1 is not that big a deal in the US. NASCAR is and they are losing ground too. Quite frankly if NASCAR suddenly decided to go full production vehicle base chassis like it was in the 60's and 70's would they see a big increase in spectators? Doubt it. Would it get me to a track to watch them go around in circles? No. But talk to a hardcore NASCAR fan and they can't believe you are too stupid to realize that it's the greatest spectacle on earth. Same with "professional" wrestling fans or World Cup football fans. Trials must realize the rest of the world doesn't see us as we see ourselves. Once that's done the process of education and marketing can begin. That requires an understanding of what it takes to catch the interest of the average Joe on the street. As for how do you grow the sport on a local level? Again make it accessable and fun to the beginner. That is the entire recipe for success. All the rules changes at the national and world levels won't make a bit of difference.

Did that with a mid muffler once. Quite the smoker. Let it go for an hour or so and watched as the liquid goo drained out. Decided I'd better stop after a before the fire brigade arrived. Not sure it ran any different but it's always fun to play with fire.

Hi Copemech, Might take longer then I thought measuring springs. Hit a pot hole Monday and truck is in shop with exploded front end. Lucky I was doing 25 and not 65. Looked under to see bottom A arm laying on ground.

Hi Billy I'd love to chat with you sometime although I'm pretty sure I'd be out of my league. I always thought if I could get within spitting distance of what you and Jon know I'd be happy. I haven't been on here too long recently as I'm trying to release a product at work and running into all kinds of foolishness. It's wearing me a bit. Copemech Yes sorry for not responding sooner for the same reason. That and I have to figure out what I did with my caliper. It's in the truck somewhere....I think. Fastducs Yeah there is a certain logic to the question of how many tabs actually make contact. I would think it gradually becomes more as the plates wear in. The more the better though as reducing the pressure on any particular plate/basket interface reduces its importance in affecting the sliding of the plates. One thing I do wonder about with fewer tabs contacting is warpage of the plates as they are torqued unevenly around the perimeter and whether that has an effect on the spontaneous take off phenomena some pros experience at full throttle pre-slingshot. The spring preload vs removing springs vs lower spring rate debate rages on. Well OK not really raging but is open for discussion. Two things it affects, how much pressure is actually on the plate while the clutch is engaged and how much is required to hold the beastie in when it is disengaged. One looks like an offset the other a gain or I guess it just pushes the two data points around on an exponential curve. (sorry started rambling there) The experiments to determine the transfer function of pressure plate pressure vs friction are beyond what I have the time to do. Though I'd love to see the data if somebody does it. Earlier someone did do holding pressure experiments for spring removal and spacer loading. The results are on here somewhere. Skippy It should work for the Techno as the fiber plates are the same part number as the Rev3 if I remember correctly.

I hate whoop de doos.

Heh heh I geeked out at lunch today and made an ENIAC reference. My 20 something tech gave me a blank look. I had to explain computers built with tubes, big air conditioners and punch cards. The look didn't change and I got merciless amounts of abuse from my co-workers for geeking at lunch. Just what good friends do. Friends don't let friends turn into poindexters.

The Honda radical combustion engine was kinda close. Nothing beats gasoline for energy density. 19,500 BTUs per gram baby and after all heat is what makes it go. Even nitro-methane has lower energy density. Top fuel dragsters make so much power with it because it's an oxygen bearing fuel that can be literally poured into an engine to make power by the boatload. I'm not sure kicking a diesel is possible in the displacement you'd need for trials. Diesels are also plenty torquey but not real quick to spin up. Diesels can be setup for higher output but that usually involves turbo or supercharging them. They are simpler in theory but often more complicated in fact. I've wondered if a turbine powered bike would be possible. Big hit, no problem. Just hit the afterburner. Takes care of leaves in the section too.

Optical sensor with a grey code or similar would work for absolute positioning. I work on optical data interfaces that run at ~3GbS so I know optical can go pretty damn fast. optical tends to get dirty real fast in such an environment. The hall effect sensor would work. Works in multi-cylinder ignitions. As long as the matching gear had the mating faces occurring at integer multiples it would work. I love the "Arrrgg it won't work! You're wasting time." posts. Guys take this way too seriously. Sometimes you just have to float a concept and see where it goes. I could be wasting time in front of the TV with a beer and eating potato chips watching some mind-numbing spirit-crushing game show (as Renton says in Trainspotting). I never said these were good ideas, just fun brain teasers. Remember scientific tests have proven it's impossible for bumblebees to fly. Fortunately no one told the bees. I know I won't.

Yeah my '05 has the primary weight and took some clutch work to get it to hit hard. the '08 doesn't have the primary weight and jumps like a scalded cat when you whack the throttle. Simple enough to spot if you have the weight. if you look through the tranny fluid sight glass and can see a flat piece of metal inboard of the glass you have the flywheel. Unfortunately I don't think it's removeable. Probably could be machined down.

It does look like unobtainium. Buddy of mine was mad at James Cameron for using unobtainium in Avatar until I explained that I've seen a couple of on-set photos of Cameron in an MSR jersey. Obviously one of us so the reference to the old dirt bike magazine mentions of unobtainium (or nonexistium) in factory bikes is easy to explain.

Heh heh Check these out. Rather extreme examples but fun. http://www.travellingcurves.com/curves/# Spirograph anyone?

Wow, down on your star player. Actually I like the kid and wish we had him back but he'd be stupid to pass up the coin Toronto threw at him. Then again I'm a Hal Gill fan simply because the Boston fans were so rough on him. Good guy and a good solid defenseman who didn't want to be a goon. Nothing made me smile like seeing his name on the Stanley Cup.

Beta's do tend to alternate between "perky" and "smooth" from year to year. When you say you checked for the flywheel weight do you mean the one on the primary side or the ignition side? Beta's have two primary crank gear options based on what year and engine size. Typically pre-'07 a primary side weight was on the 270 but it's possible you have one. You can see the difference from the exploded diagrams on the Beta site. http://www.betamotor.com/system/attachment...t_04_motore.pdf This is the '04 diagram but it shows the weight. Curiously it doesn't show the non-weight option. Other possibilities are ignition timing slightly retarded. More advance gives more "pop" also harder starting and rougher running but that's the price you pay. Of course jetting can be off slightly. I assume this is a Mikuni carb. If your reed valves are damaged it will greatly soften the power on the bottom. Probably the only way to really tell if your bike is significantly down on power though is to try a similar one.

OK so I'm sitting here thinking I'd like to set up a way to monitor rotational speed of the crankshaft. An optical sensor being the easiest method to implement and a resolver being the hardiest. Knowing that the crankshaft speeds up and slows down as it goes through the two stroke cycle it occurs to me that this would be a very sophisticated way to monitor engine fuel and ignition requirements. From instantaneous crank acceleration one can deduce engine load from the ratio of how much the crank slows between power strokes and how much it speeds up during the power stroke. One could also sense pre-ignition and detonation as short-violent deceleration just prior to the power stroke. Could even be used for a rudimentry form of traction control. Then I started thinking of another modification to the basic trials engine. Why are the primary drive gears round? Because they

Don't ya just love a mystery?

It's possible that the chain is knackered and the previous owner just pulled a link to make it tight. Grab a link in the middle of the chain run on the rear sprocket and pull it off the sprocket. If you can see more then 1/2 tooth then it's time for a new chain. Of course check the sprocket for wear while you're at it. Teeth should be symmetrical, er symmetric... they should look the same on both sides.

Digging around looking for information on the carb. Man it's like pulling teeth! Doesn't seem to be even a mention of what model carb it is let alone technical documantation.

Magnet probably picked it up off the bench during assembly and then did it's job keeping it in place. Some mechanic at the factory who'd been assembling mopeds the day before probably spent an hour going, "Where the hell did that bearing race go? It was right here. I swear it was." It looks like it didn't go wondering around in the engine. Way too pristine.

I've noticed this before on Rev3s. Some worse then others. Pretty much can only be two things, well three actually but only two that wouldn't indicate a problem. With the clutch out the entire primary side of the gear train is engaged including the input shaft of the transmission. Since we have to assume the clutch is happily clamped up tight from the pressure plate to the base of the basket I think that limits the rattle to gear clearance. Think of it this way, when the clutch is pulled, in gear, there is still some clutch drag that torques the primary gears into engagement but enough slip to keep the clutch pack from acting as a flywheel. With the clutch out and the transmission in neutral the clutch and half the gear train is freewheeling with much less drag. As the crank goes around it changes speed slowing as the piston compresses the mixture and accelerating again after the ignition fires. It may be the inertia stored in the clutch basket and gear train is enough to disengage the primary gears momentarily causing them to clack back and forth as the piston fires. Betas use straight cut gears. Does anybody know if other brands use helical gears which I think would lessen this considerably. The other possibility I can think of is the gears in the gearbox clacking around because even though it's not "in gear" some gears are still meshed. I think this is most unlikely though as there's not a lot of mass to clack them back and forth within the gearbox. Certainly not enough to make it loud like the rattle I'm familiar with. A rather deep cluckity cluckity sound. So that's my guess. Different tolerance in the matching of the primary gears.

Don't be picking on Boston you... you... Kessel thief!

Sorry, Gas cap. If the vent /hose thingy in the gas cap gets blocked then riding the engine under load, like on an uphill, can cause the bike to use enough fuel to cause a vacuum in the tank. Tends to interrupt fuel flow into the carb so the bike will run lean under load but seem perfectly normal when just idling or puttering around.

Don't worry, soon all will be made in China and we can get them at WalMart or your local equivalent. Any brand. Really all this angst. Two of my mates just received new GG racing models. One won't take it out of the house yet because it's winter but the other took it out last weekend and a mate with an 08 Raga who got to ride the new bike placed an order that night. Another with a Sherco said he would if he could afford it. I'm not a GasGas rider as anybody from the Beta forum can attest, just can't seem to get along with them, but I've seen the newer bikes take some awful beatings and survive quite well. I wouldn't accuse GasGas of being stupid. The best way to seize market share is to attack while the market is weak. This bike is clearly an aggressive stab at market share from the mid-level buyer. I would expect after the Raga comes out for the top end any leftover parts will end up in another economy model. Not every sale needs to be at the start of the season. GasGas is showing a keen understanding of market dynamics.

Agreed, sounds like the poor thing is starving for fuel. Check for the blocked breather hose on the cap. I believe there is a check valve in the cap to keep fuel from leaking after a crash. That valve could be stuck too. Should respond to a shot of carb cleaner. Perhaps a test run up a hill with the cap cracked open a bit will tell.