bigplonker

Spotted this trials Zundapp for sale in northern France. €1500.

This is a long shot... If anyone's going to the Creuse 4 day trial in France from the Scunthorpe area I'd be massively grateful if you could transport a box of about 20?ish classic motorcycle magazines to the trials venue at Sardent where I could pick them up and thereby save about £50 in postage costs. Being a poverty stricken old age pensioner, I'd be happy to pay around £20 for petrol money.

Yesterday's Argentina MotoGP was a good 'un. Congrats to Cal Crutchlow for a fine win. However the main talking point was Marquez's aggressive riding. This was probably caused by a rush of angry adrenaline after being given a 'drive through' penalty for riding in the reverse direction at the start after stalling his engine and then bump starting (ooh, complicated to explain). When given the penalty he was in the lead, but he rejoined the race at the tail end, hence his anger. From that point onwards he rode like a maniac right up to about fifth position (if I remember correctly), having barged his way past most of his competitors including Rossi who crashed due to being forced off the track when Marquez dived up the inside on a bend. I understand that the race directors penalised both Rossi and Marquez for dangerous riding by relegating them to the last positions in the finishing order (or maybe I'm wrong). I've just watched Rossi's post race video on the MotoGP site and yes, sure enough, he was really angry about Marquez. More than that, he wanted the MotoGP 'powers that be' to punish him for being a real danger to his fellow competitors as well as being completely disrespectful. I suspect Rossi wants him banned for a lengthy period of time. Personally, I think Rossi's right to accuse Marquez of riding dangerously and demanding punishment to fit the crime. Yes, I know Marquez is a brilliant rider but he's overstepped the limit before and he's done it again. His determination to win at all costs is putting lives at risk. Something has to be done.

Very interested to see Maurice Hocking's 410 Matchless being auctioned on eBay. This must be one of the most desirable trials bikes ever, apart, maybe, from Sam's GOV132 and Eddie Lejeune's works Hondas. Bidding is currently at £6600 and I expect it to go much higher. I'll keep doing the lottery.

And..., as well as Dave Thorpe, the 350 CCM was ridden in the late '70s with some success by Nick Jefferies, who also rode the four-stroke RTL Honda and various racers in the IOM TT thus making him one of the great all-rounders.

I vaguely remember Dave Thorpe riding a 350cc BSA engined CCM in the 'Scottish' a few decades ago. I think I'm right in saying that it sprang an oil leak or two and gave Dave quite a challenging ride. Can't recall whether he coaxed the bike through to the finish or not. If so, he did well. As somebody else mentioned in this thread, the bike looked and sounded gorgeous.

Retired to France a few years back. Kept my old TES Greeves in the belief that I might one day ride again. Maybe the Talmag. Maybe the Scottish Pre-65. Maybe some classic French trial. Didn't happen though. Sold the bike and reluctantly accepted that my trials-riding days were over. Since then, as one does, I've been trawling the sales ads for interesting pre-65 and twinshock bikes, just out of curiosity. Seems that there are less and less good 'uns available, so more and more must be mothballed in old blokes' (and lassies') garages. And, crikey, how the prices have steadily risen over the last decade or two! Eight grand for a Cub. Ten grand for a 350 CCM. Fifteen grand for an HT5. Who buys these bikes and do they get ridden in trials or stashed away as investments? Spotted a gem yesterday in the 'Old Bike Mart'. Maurice Hocking's old 410 Matchless. Up for grabs at a smidgeon under thirteen. Last saw it advertised about ten years ago on eBay for six and a half (I think). So it's doubled in a decade. Lovely bike though. And a lovely bloke, Maurice. Anyways, I'll keep doing the lottery. Is anyone else amazed about these spiralling prices or is it just me being a doddery old git?

Any budgetary constraints? Have you joined a motorcycle club? Do you intend to do modern trials, or are there frequent twinshock and/or pre-'65 trials in your area? Will you be entering trials alone or with one or two mates? If it's with mates maybe they could advise about which bike to go for. If you don't have mates (I know the feeling!) maybe turn up at a local trial as a spectator, introduce yourself to the organisers (and maybe join their club if you're not already a member of a club) then ask for advice about bikes. But..., having said all that, it's probably best to buy a used bike from a local trials bike dealer and then enter as many local trials (as a novice rider) as you can before you get bored with trials (or seriously hooked!) and then take it from there.

Hah, yes indeed!

Good point.

Er, no comprendo. You blame Honda for what?

You've made a couple of very good points there. Another thing perhaps worth mentioning is that back in the '70s there were a lot more new trials bikes being sold which, presumably, helped keep prices down. So, yes, I agree that modern trials bikes are priced comparatively fairly.

Just out of curiosity I've just done a fairly quick internet search for this year's trials bike prices. To make it a bit less complicated I searched only for 250cc (ish) models. Here's what I found: Beta 2T £5495 (4T 300cc £5795), GasGas £5450, TRS £5399, Montesa 260 4RT £5699 (Cota 300 £5999), Montesa Repsol £6699, Sherco £5495, Scorpa £5099 (but also £6125 which is a bit confusing - might be shome mishtake on my part), Vertigo Camo £6295, Vertigo Ice Hell £6995. During this search I discovered that Ossa is no more. Another disappointment was the disappearance of the 'new' Greeves trials bike. Doh! - I'm always the last to know these things. Finger on the pulse? I think not. Anyways..., I hasten to add that the prices I've quoted may well be inaccurate and/or out of date so don't take them as gospel. Also, just out of curiosity, I've just done a quick comparison of a price here in France, just to see if it's cheaper. Here's what I found: 2017 Beta 250 €6340 (from Dherbey Motos), which at today's exchange rate equals £5572. Looking forward to announcements of 2018 UK prices. Will Brexit push prices up? Should be interesting.

So..., having a supportive local dealer is key to sales. In this case a bike's colour and graphics pale into insignificance. Interestingly the latest black and orange Scorpas look very attractive so your local dealer may well anticipate further sales success as well as increasing brand loyalty.

Yes, brand loyalty is indeed an important factor in choosing a rider's next bike so, in this instance, colour may not be that important. And, as you say, it's probably more important to youngsters whose brand loyalty hasn't yet been established. Here's where a bit of research into colour and graphics might result in increased sales.

Interesting that the Repsol Monty divides opinion - you think it's a mess while others really rate its colour scheme. Good point about paying a premium to advertise an oil brand! However, I understand the premium is for various 'extras' on that model.

Er, yes, but when they're new and in the showroom would colour or graphics influence your decision?

Thanks for that. I'm sure many manufacturers would be interested to know that colour played an important part in your decision making process.

Some time ago I read a Trials Central posting by a chap who was trying to decide which trials bike to buy. Somewhat surprisingly, the main thing stopping him making a final decision was the bike's colour scheme. If I remember correctly, the bike he was seriously considering was the TRS, but he was put off by its lemon yellow and grey graphics which I think he found a bit bland and uninspiring. As an ex graphic designer I found this interesting. It made me wonder how seriously trials bike designers take colour schemes. After all the money, time and effort invested in a bike's technical development are graphics and colours just a last minute add-on or are they the result of questioning among focus and target groups? Sadly, I suspect the former. Colours and graphics are emotive. While some people may like TRS's lemon yellow and grey with beige fork legs, others may prefer the bolder colour schemes of its competitors. And this could well swing a buyer's final decision. Talking of which, there certainly seem to be some garish new bikes in the showrooms! For example, the jazzy-looking red, white and blue Beta. As an ex Pre-'65 wobbler, I have to admit the colouring doesn't attract me, but I'm sure mechanically it's top notch. But, there again, I'm not target market. Mind you, having said that, how many youngsters can afford five grand or more for...? Nah, price, different topic. So, to return to my opening gambit, if the TRS was, say, for example, purple and orange instead of lemon yellow and grey, would that prospective purchaser have parted with his hard earned cash? Who knows? Maybe someone's done some research... Er..., just out of interest, what do people reckon is the best looking (in terms of colours and graphics) modern trials bike (say, over the past ten years or so) and which is reckoned to be the best looker ever?

Totally agree. If Ross completes the trial it'll be one hell of an achievement.

My first bike was a Greeves Scottish way back in 1963. Had a few Greeves since then. When I retired a few years back I decided to bag another Greeves for old times sake and because it felt a bit odd not having a trials bike or, more specifically, a Greeves cluttering the shed, even though I'm now way too old to ride trials, and I'm retired in France where trials are few and far between, and my dodgy ticker would probably have a fit with the physical exertion of attempting to finish a trial, even an easy one. Anyways..., I was extremely fortunate to snap up this splendid TES a couple of years ago which was lovingly restored by Nick Cooke. Apparently it started life being built by Don Hitchcock for the 1964 Scottish complete with chromed bits as a tongue-in-cheek mickey-take statement of one-upmanship to Don Smith and his blinged-up chrome-plated TES. At the time Don Hitchcock was a Greeves semi-works sponsored rider who specialised in continental enduros and the ISDT, as well as acting occasionally as Dave Bickers' mechanic at continental meetings. Due to his close ties with the Greeves factory he was able to have access to various special parts such as (I believe) the original banana forks (now replaced). Whe I bought the bike it had a fibreglass Anglian petrol tank which, unfortunately, was blistering due to the ethanol additive in modern petrol. The tank was binned and replaced by a metal item hand made by Holtworks. Looks rather splendid, wot? Lack of use and old age dictate that I regretfully have put the bike up for sale.

In the days leading up to the EU Referendum I noticed quite a few comments on Facebook from trials riders indicating which way they'd vote. Interestingly there seemed to be massive support for Brexit. This I found surprising as it contradicted predictions of a win for the Remainers. Anyway, now that the voting's over and we're all trying to come to terms with the devastating implications of a Brexit win, how will British trials be affected? Well, for a start, as the pound crashes against the euro, trials bikes and equipment manufactured in Europe will immediately become more expensive. This will have a knock on effect of pushing up prices of used machines and maybe even forcing a few European manufacturers out of business. I notice that GasGas has recently re-emerged from the brink of collapse with a fine new product - they must now be worried sick due to the difficulties they now face in marketing their bikes in the UK. And what of the many UK bike shops specialising in trials? Well, their prospects don't seem good. It's a dwindling sport and their goods have just become more expensive. It's going to be even harder now to attract youngsters to trials. And youngsters is what the sport needs. But it ain't going to happen. Alas, I fear that the Brexit vote is yet another nail in the trials coffin.

I'm so shocked I can't think of what to say. Big Mart was a colossus, both as a person and a rider. Condolences to the Lampkin family.

Sounds great. Do riders have to be insured or members of a French or UK (ACU affiliated) club? Is a doctor's certificate required? Do the bikes have to be UK or French registered with lights and other thingies such as those ignition cut-out handlebar wristy wotsits ..., or can anyone just turn up with a pre-'65 or twinshock and ride? Well, when I say "ride", in my case I mean "wobble and tumble".

Lovely guy. Cornered him at the start of a Sunbeam Greybeards trial a few years back when he'd entered on a Millerised Cub (I presume it was one of his last rides). Told him I was rebuilding a KT250 and he gave me his business card and said if I needed advice or help just give him a ring. Very kind of him. I now own a Greeves TES which is very much like one of his and#39;special' TES's. My first trials bike was a Greeves Scottish way back in and#39;63 when Smithy was contesting the European championship. Occasionally I'd ride with a roll-up fag pretending to be the great man. It was great to meet him around forty years later.