huntmaster

Yes, very much so. No "production rules" were in effect there. In fact it took the demise of the production HT (and all four stoke Ariels) for parent company BSA to give Sam "Carte Blanche" to make whatever modifications he wanted...resulting in a famous but very "one off" machine that never saw the show room floor!

Not trolling here but just curious as to why no AHRMA trials presence in the Northeast? I was under the impression a lot of people lived there! I've seen trials there, many vintage bike and other AHRMA competition events....just not all three together!

Yep. 300 + lb production HT's weren't built after 1958 and have little in common with many of the bikes out there now. The machine is perhaps most famous in it's early sixties "Millerized" form (the pattern for most every pre-65 competition Ariel out there now) despite the fact that no such production bike was ever built! How do you "regulate" that? In fact, thanks to "donour" VH's, NH's, pre-65 aftermarket frames, barells, and various cycle parts, there are more HT's in existance now then were ever built at Selly Oak or Small Heath!

Ah...an XL 250 Motorsport!

Funny how that happens! Thanks for all the info. Doug

I noted the RTL250s on e-bay recently and then the subsequent thread here. I always lusted over them. Very pricy and not imported to my neck of the woods back when new. Twenty years later there a few around imported into North America as noted there. Prices look better lately? Are they a realistic bike to buy and maintain today? Parts available? As I recall from my TL days Honda is famous for forgetting about models after twenty years or so...nevermind obscure ones! Is this a lost cause? No expectations of having a competitive "modern" trials bike here of course. Doug

Arial? Is that like a Royel Enfield?

I have seen one or two of these come up for sale from time to time and have been intruiged. I've had Honda fourstokes but don't know much about these. Not too many came into the country I think. As they approach 20 years old, I might worry about parts availability too, as this is the cutoff where Honda generally divests itself of supplying them if I recall correctly?

Looks like a few heavyweight bikes made it out? The sections should be well clear now! Doug

Nice pics. Looks like great sections and scenery. I wonder if I can use frequent flyer points to get my bike there next year!

Thanks for the link Vinnie. Doug

Some great pics there!

Yes, the Southwest Ontario vintage trials group have been involved in discussions on the inter-section event. Details will be provided as plans firm up for next years event. Should be fun!

There's been some excellent feedback from the various regional CVMG groups in central Canada that have been organizing vintage trials events for the last 20 + years or so. At this time the hope for next year is to run a "Canadian Vintage Trials Championship" or similar in central Ontario that will be accessable for as many possble current riders from southwestern Ontario to Quebec...and hopefully beyond. There would be a "team" competition for the various particpating CVMG sections in Canada as well as the usual individual awards for the variouis rider skill and bike age classes. Piggy backing onto a modern CMA round might make the most sense and potentially let riders with old and new bikes ride both days in a "super trials" weekend. I remember at least one event a few years back where this was succesfully done. A bit to do regarding sanctioning, rules and eligibility but some good consensus already I think and it seems lots of anticipation as well. Regards, Doug

That's quite the exhaust setup there!

Looks like a great event. Definitely nice to be riding trials in early February! Seems like some of those local trees live a hard life though? Doug

That's a pretty standard weight for a "Millerized" HT (including my own) using common aftermarket bits. Some have been whittled down to 200-205 lbs depending on who you talk to. Either figure is a long way off of a production HT and very close to my old Honda TL250 in fact! Doug

There were a couple "trials universal" 19" options out there last I looked, but not cheap and hardly competition tires as noted earlier. To keep the standard rims I bought some for my BSA scrambler for road work, shows, etc., but put an 18" on my Ariel for trials.

Nice pics and some great looking bikes there. I gather this Honda was a works bike of some sort? A nice ride I'm sure. http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/kd...nt=SDC10037.jpg

Yeah, the ITSA cutoff dates for machines confuse me too, unless it was an effort to not directly compete with AHRMA classic classes? I'm not close enough to either organization to comment on any of the issues previously brought up, but interesting. I would love to have tried some AHRMA events but currently just too far for me. I too noticed how little there was in the northeast and am puzzled by the "chicken or the egg" argument there... with no one apparantly wanting to run one... but plenty of people interested in vintage trials? I rode a USCRA event in New Hampshire a few years back with a couple area riders and had a great time with the New England/eastern US crowd. My only US event ever. Like AHRMA, it was perhaps just a sideshow to the Laconia roadracing program that weekend...but with a big turnout, well run and well received. I remember thinking that with all that population and number of riders, why couldn't AHRMA have a trials presence in the Northeast? But again, I don't know all the politics. Sadly that event fell victim to financial bickering of some sort I understand. http://www.race-uscra.com/trialshunter03.html As for Canada, I think at least some of the regions we need to start doing some things differently. Doug

I just read through the recent "Trouble at AHRMA" thread on the USA forum. Yikes! Almost as bad as reading CMA/WEC politics for modern Canadian Trials! As for the former, all politics aside, the riding issues sound very familar to ones I have heard since starting to help organize and compete in vintage events here in Canada over 20 years ago. Ironically, some of the vintage bikes we see out in recent times were being used in modern events back when we started "vintage" trials in Eastern Canada! Much has changed and the old guard of BSA and Triumph riders are almost completely absent now, while the ubiquitous TY's , TLs, Sherpas, etc. are all over 30 years old. Turnouts of 40+ riders at one time have dwindled to a dozen or so at some venues. A changing of the guard may be occuring, except the new guard isn't showing up! Perhaps the future (of vintage?) trials may be as in the ITSA example of later model twin shocks or even old monos (as these bikes become increasingly uncompetitive in modern events ) encouraging new blood while offering a kinder, gentler trials then the often described "stunt riding" of modern events? As with street and roadrace bikes, the definition of "vintage" might have to move with the times. Other arguments of rider and machine eligability, section difficulty and lines offered will become moot without more riders. I have seen section difficulty get out of hand, and numbers suffer as older or inexperienced riders get worn out, banged up or break their bikes. I also realize you have to cater to the core regulars of experienced enthusiasts. Hopefully if any group can find "balance" here it will be trials riders! Like modern events, the vintage scene is spread among local pockets of activity that may or may not be CVMG sections, CVMG-associated, various local clubs, some CMA sanctioned and most totally unsanctioned. Except for roadracing we have no AHRMA equivalent in Canada...for better or worse. There is no meaninglful national ranking or standard class/rule structure. I wonder if (as per the ITSA example) that might need to change to raise the profile, help better promote and preserve the sport and provide "nationals/regionals" where the best riders from the different local series can complete with each other? Or is there a synergy with the new WEC initiative here in Canada? I also couldn't help but notice the the "I" in ITSA stands for "International"! Is there a possibility such an international series could operate in more then one country? Looking at their rules though I might personally be out of luck, as 1979 bikes are labelled "historic" and 1973 bikes are "pre-historic"...leaving my 56 Ariel "pre-pre-historic" I guess? Or maybe "pre-big bang" era? Regards, Doug Hunter Ottawa

Keep in mind that there is a couple types of frame out there. There is of course the "oil in" and "oil tank" type frames... plus some that have the fuel tank "wing" mount up front vs. just the verticle stud mount. Obviously your tank selection needs to correspond, but if you have parts already it all needs to be considered. You need to have a good discussion up front with your supplier in any case. They don't all seem to come with footrest mounts either, which might have to be fabricated. You will probably have to source out a swinging arm, and even the proper Ariel item needs to be sectioned out and narrowed. A bit of work if not unsurmountable, however a new Montesa 4RT might be sounding more attractive to some! Doug

Could be. That was a few years back. I think he had someone else making the frames for him in recent times anyway, and there are a number of other sources as noted elsewhere here. The last Miller catalogue I had included a pretty comprehensive HT/pre-65 section including fendors (sorry, mud guards!) , fuel tanks, air boxes, controls, etc. I'm sure there are still lots of other sources out there (such as Surrey Cycles) as well. Doug

There are a number of sources including Sammy Miller (strangely enough!) as well as John Bartram and Jim Susans last I heard. They also supply alloy engine mounts, bash plates and such as well. Started here with an existing engine and gearbox several years back and bought just about everything else. There are cheaper project bike options then an Ariel of course...but then none of them are Ariels! and

Interesting. Thanks for all the responses. It looks like I will have to get some serious sponsorship before going that route it appears!