huntmaster

Interesting. I was not aware of the other "GOV" registrations.

Ouch!!!

An interesting discussion. Like any involving "rules" it's usually not about if there should be any but of course where to draw the line. On this side of the pond I could show up with a disc-braked, monoshock HT5 and never be turned away! Hardly "pre-65"... but of course a literal "showroom stock" enforcement of the rulebook where there are more classic bikes would make every "Millerized" Ariel out there completely ineligable. No such bike existed in any Ariel brochure anywhere! As many know, the stock HT that went out of production in 1958 (not 1964!) weighed over 100 lbs more then many GOV 132 clones...or about 2/3 the weight of a modern trials bike!

Wow, great pics. Thanks for posting!

Hi Jim. I wrestled with that same problem a few years back when building my HT. Perhaps you have already come up with a solution, however heres a couple pics I have. There is not just one solution here from what I have seen but this is the one I liked (for a larger then average rider!) after talking to people. Regards, Doug

I just returned from this event near Montreal last weekend. It's only in it's third year but building a good following... with near 100 riders from central Canada and northeast US competing this year. Mick Andrews was also along helping out with the trials both days. Beautiful weather on Saturday, and even the heavy rains of Hurricane Irene didn't dampen the enthusiam too much on Sunday! Thanks to event host Eric for the loan of a Yamaha TY after my Ariel's mag expired! A few pics here. http://www.offroadmotorcycles.ca/journal/2011/8/29/trials-at-the-ormstown-vintage-off-road-festival.html Regards, Doug

I had the same issue a few years back, with a baffed monobloc that originally came with my HT5 engine. With new manufacture monoblocs and concentrics both available I could have gone either route but prevailing opinion was that the concentric was superior in most ways, particularly at low speed. I had a low opinion of the latter, particulary after the slide on one in my Commando self destructed and got blown out the exhaust! However, the new manufacure ones (besides being new) are apparantly of better build quality then the old OEM ones...which wouldn't be hard to do! It was only once informed of that I went with one rather then jump to a modern Mk 2 Amal, which would have been expensive (but reassuring) if not classic-competition legal everywhere!

A similar thread from last year at the ADV Rider forum. Trials Bikes From A-Z

That's actually a 3/4 scale HT5!

I expect it would be very difficult to get any consensus on "what is" classic trials from either a bike or a riding perspective! The definition certainly evolves over time... and if classic trials has little to do with modern events, it has almost as little to do with the classic events of years ago in my experience! The situation on this side of the pond is quite different of course, and I expect exacerbated by the lower particpation rate and rider base in North American trials. Perhaps an indicator of what could be in store for pre-65 (or even twinshock) events in the UK or the continent in years to come as classic bikes (and riders!) get older. I started riding trials as a kid nearly (yikes) fourty years ago but left the sport before the monoshock era, only to come back riding twinshock events years later. I remember my Honda (and other period twinshocks) getting a dismissive "hurrumph" from some BSA and Triumph classic riders at the time! They obviously didn't consider the Honda "vintage"! B-40's, Cubs, C-15s, TR-5's, Bantams were plentiful, with a good smattering of Spanish two strokes as well. Japanese twinshocks were tolerated! Now, 20 years later most of those riders aren't active (or have moved to newer machinery) and all the old bikes are gone while overall classic numbers are well down. I'm the only guy riding a pre-65 bike locally. Ironically, early air-cooled monos are 25 years old now (older then many of those British bikes were when I started riding classic events) yet some don't consider them vintage! As for the riding aspect, as some have noted the classic stuff is practically a different sport from modern events...but I may have to consider that route to keep riding trials in these parts. The situation here is a bit different and classic events are in decline, or at least in transformation... as older bikes (and riders) disappear and newer ones show up. I do my best to avoid passing along my own "hurrumph" factor (I like the later bikes too) but have become a one-man show. Vintage series events could well end up being a "vintage class" at modern events, which will make it tough to accomodate everything from an air-cooled TY mono to my pre-65 lump! For myself, the issue will be whether to go back to a 70's-80's twinshock bike (keeping the Ariel for shows, rally's and classic events) and riding familar classic-type lines, or to spring for a 4RT and try an all new sport...modern trials! I have to admit to considering the latter glorified stunt riding for many years, but I have become intruiged with it lately, while having a bit of a "been there, done that" feeling about the twinshock stuff. At 45, I better not wait too long I suppose! Regards, Doug

Some good follow up coverage at Visit My Website

Nice to see a Tiger Cub still competing as a regular ride! Too bad those new fangled colour cameras has trouble in the dark!

Nice pics. Looks like a fun event.

Could be. Good thing I don't have one of these! I better cancell that Rocket-3 trials project I guess!

Hi Nicolas. I swapped out the Betor/Combe units I first tried out on my HT5 for the NJB's after the former proved to light, even with the "heavy" springs. For the latter I went with the HS1 heavy spring but my documentation doesn't say anything about length or model, just a helpful "NJB Trials shocks" on the invoice! I don't remember my options at the time (it was a few years ago) regarding length but will measure up when I get a chance. I'm very satisfied with them. Regards, Doug

I've been using the Ariel type (on my Ariel!) pictured there for a few years and it has held up pretty well. Plenty of capicity and unobtrusive. It needed the epoxy fibreglass treatment after a while...which seems to be a common issue today with glass tanks and modern fuel. I've made it a habit not to leave fuel in it for extended periods. I might break down and get an alloy one for non-competition if that gets tiring! Doug

Nice pics. Good turnout of old British iron. Looks like a fun day.

Very nice. A real clean installation. As noted, no reason this shouldn't be completely vintage legal. Nothing that couldn't have been done back in the day. In fact, I wished Honda had have! Good luck with the bike.

I think it is pretty clear to most that the M10 is not a pre-65 bike, and in fact is the whole reason a pre-65 vintage class was started in subsequent years! Miller's pre-production works machine running around in late 1964 doesn't consititute a 1964 model of a bike not publicly available until 1965... as a 1965 model. The M10 is an interesting machine and deserves a class to compete in... but it's lack of competitiveness with later twinshock models cannot be used as justification to bend the rules and admit it to an earlier era of machinery. Unfortunately, no matter where you cut off the rules eligability, one machine or another is going to be left out in the cold, forced to compete with "similar" but newer and more capable bikes. Two "wrongs" however, don't make a "right"!

August 14-15th From the Organisers: Just to let you know that the entry form and information flyer - French and English - for The 2010 Ormstown Vintage Off Road Festival are available on the net. Go to: http://www.rocler.qc.ca/ariane/cycact2.htm The documents are in MS-Word and will take some time to download if you don't have high speed. Please let me know if you have any problems. Would appreciate it if you could spread the word around and hope to see you in August. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See the link for details. Ormstown is southwest of Montreal near the New York State border. A great venue. Second year for the event. Guest of honour this year is Jeff Smith. Should be fun. Regards, Doug

I've used the Caswell sealer with good results. Just to be safe...don't leave fuel in a fibreglass tank when the bike is not in use. Doug

He definitely kept in "on the cam"!

Maybe pre-65 will soon have to refer to the rider!

No question there. A great series from what I have heard and would love to be able to try a few some day. I just continue to be amazed that year after year there are no AHRMA events in such a heavilly populated and otherwise trials and classic bike rich region, despite the comments noted here? Anyway, was just puzzled. Just an observation not a criticism. Not trying to start a "thing"! I'm a bit removed the the trials scene there but know there are some great events and enthusiastic competitors in the northeastern US. Perhaps I have waded into a political issue, which seems too easy to do both in Canada or US trials lately it seems...so I'll just shut up!