huntmaster

I rode my Honda TL in "modern" trials during the mid-seventies...and then again in "vintage" in the 90's. It was fun both times... I have no preference!

Sounds like there is an inverse relationship between suspension sophistication and performance pressure? I guess it's time to find a "rigid" Norton then!

The problem is that even the US aftermarket is pretty thin for the 250 and what is there focussing mostly on universal fit items, piston kits, OEM replacement type wear items like the hard-to-replace dished rear sprockets or in some cases side panels that everyone seems to be looking for. The bike is a little uncommon even in North America and I only came across a small handfull of others during the 15 years I rode mine in vintage events.Considering the durability of the design I expect there are probably a lot more of them around then are still being ridden in competition. I lusted over pics of RTL's, works bikes, aftermarket Miller-type frames, etc., but there was no simply performance aftermarket for the bike. Ironically, due to the plentiful UK pre-65 aftermarket I wasn't able to do such a project until finding a 20 year older Ariel! Doug

Yes on all accounts I would say! And depending on where you ride...a radically altered TL may not even be vintage legal and after all that work you might end up competing against a 4RT et all anyway! At least with the current four stroke... Honda & co. are finally sharing a competitive design with the public.

The TY-175 was a good bike but like the TL-125 was a bit of a lost cause for me at 6'4" and 255 lbs. The TY-250 was a great bike however and probably would have been near as reliable and maintenance free but far more competitive for me then my old TL-250 for all those years. Still I was able to get a few good results with it over the years often to the chagrin of light weight two stroke riders, particular at events that played to the bikes strengths...where traction was marginal and hills were long and steep but with no stadium type obstacles! But the sad truth is my current pre-65 Ariel HT5 project weighs the same and feels similar in many ways to the Honda...but instead of competing with TY's and SWM's it competes with other old lumps with ground clearance best measured with a feeler guage!

I had both bikes at one time or another and agree that for average size or smaller riders the 125 is probably a better proposition. However for larger riders the extra weight of the 250 is less of an issue while the much lesser power of the 125 is! Once you get past the weight of the 250 everything else is pretty good and the motor is very strong...revs to the moon, yet seems to find traction in anything! Reliabilityand durability unsurpassed... 15 years of just adding gas, an occasional oil change and a few wear items!Doug

I'm using the "new" NJB on my HT5 after hearing good things about them. So far so good and they are definitely a better setup for a heavier rider then the new Betors I had on previously... despite the "heavy" springs specified there. They look like something off of a mini-bike in comparison and it's a wonder the shafts didn't start to bend on them!DH

Not sure if "reasonable" can go in the same sentence as "new alloy tank" but you can certainly shop around for a used one! Surrey Cycle had a pretty good selection in their catalogue for about 130 pounds (the last time I saw one) if new is an option.

No such luck in my case. My bike was only a guest in that pristine shop full of classic bikes on that occasion. Things at home are unfortuately a little more cluttered!Good luck with the F-B project.

To run my BSA scrambler on the street (and limited trail) I found a set of old pattern 19" Dunlop trials universals which are/were in reproduction. They fit the original Dunlop Chrome steel rims ...but an update to alloy rims and an 18" rear would certainly allow more selection for anyone so concerned. I also found a 19" "Nitto" Dunlop clone tire (sorry ..tyre!) more recently but any of these are really not competition trials tires and no substitute for the 18" radial type I use on my HT5. Changeing sizes is probably the only option for those so inclined.

I understand Sam also used the full compression road piston (and cam) as opposed the milder HT versions...running spark fully advanced, so he definitely likes power! I've done the same thing with my own HT5 replica, which seems to work well for a heavier rider. You still want to be pointed the direction you want to be going when you crank it on though! It also weighed in at 225 lbs using standard pre-65 aftermarket "kit" parts. I understand some are down to 205 or so with lots of drilling and liberal use of "unobtanium" components. But I'm happy there...it's only a couple more lbs then my old TL-250 Honda!

Well, if engine design alone was the indicator then it would qualify for pre-45 trials! As for other designs, I'm sure rules vary however the year the model debuted is often used in vintage trials and racing, which seems reasonable and in line with the "spirit" of the class...so a 1966 Tiger Cub can properly be allowed to compete, whether celebrity-ridden or not!

Well....perhaps more affordable!

It's an ongoing argument in vintage circles and you will often find equally experienced and knowledgable riders on opposite sides! Personally, I've been using multi-grade oils in vintage bikes for years and believe there's more "pros" then "con's" in using it...particularly with frequent changes, cold mornings, hot afternoons etc. You will usually find a concensus against using racing, non-detergent or synthetic oils with classic bikes in regular use though. DH

Thanks. I've added to my Ariel gallery too!

Mine got even less slim after a particularly bad backfire when still dialing in my bike. It balloooned out to the shape of a barell! Try getting your leg to clear that! The BSA looks great.

Interesting thread. I recently went through this dilema while sourcing parts for my recent HT5 project. Even after a lot of research (and reading about Mick Grant's 205 lb HT!) it was not always clear. "Granted", the situation in North America isn't as sticky as the AHRMA rules are pretty clear... and most organizations are happy to see ANY pre-65 bike out. However, when in doubt, consider not just the age but the origin of the parts! I.E., Mikuni carb = bad... but similar Amal Mk II ? - maybe! Lightweight hubs = bad....but Rickman hub's? - maybe! Electronic ignitions = bad....but Lucas?...still bad! Regards, Doug

There's a few links here you can check out. Both the Millerized "oil in frame" and w/oil tank version are being reproduced, with options for fuel tank mounting also. http://bobjohns.coastinternet.ca/ariel/

Here's a link. No doubt probably one of many! http://www.ahrma.org/machines/bsa-b40.htm

Same here. Some interesting comparisons were made to my existing TL-250 when I finished my Ariel Ht5 project. Ironically, at 225 lbs the "Millerized" Ariel came in just lighter then the TL! The main real difference is that the Ariel competes against other great lumps of machinery in the pre-65 class while the TL competed against TYs, Bultacos and SWM's in the "twinshock" class! Incredibly, the Honda could hold it's own in the right type of event...to a point.

Yes, that good old four stroke Honda traction kept me competitive in a lot of slick and muddy vintage events over the years, despite my old TL being a bit of a lump in other respects. Co-incidentally, many of them are run near me close to another colonial "Perth" ! Doug

The attire is sure a far cry from today's Spandex body suits! I guess the red is still a big visual step forward from the previous dirty black "thorn proof" wax-cotton Barbour suits!

Thanks. That sure looks like the same bike, rider and number! But yikes...what's with that quagmire he's riding in?

On the recent subject of Honda four stroke trials development...here's a pic I've had in my "archives" for a while. It's supposodly from a Canadian round of the World Championship back in the 1970's. From the terrain it looks like British Columbia but can't say for sure? I originally thought it to be a privateer on a production TL ... but a few things look different, particularly the engine cases. In any case, the rider seems to have his hands full! Can anyone here identify the bike or rider? Regards, Doug

Beautiful bikes. Looks and sound! Unfortuneately here in the colonies pre-65 heavyweight bikes are a bit rare in vintage competition vs the later twin shockers. The bigger events (such as mid-ohio pictured here) will get a handfull of bikes out and attract a bit of attention however when ridden!