neonsurge

Apologies for the mis-attribution in my post Billy. Now you mention it, I do seem to remember reading about the hose attachment mod in one of your articles published elsewhere on the 'net.

Block 217, row R, seats 1 and 2 (I don't need 2 seats for my lardy a***, it's me and t' lad). lastplacebrad's on the same row (stay away from him, he's a bad 'un).

I doubt it, American's nor Canadians would use Soccer as a sport of reference. Ah yes, but that could be part of the ruse: Only an American would say "soccer" because in Europe it's "football". "Football" would have been better due to the ambiguity. They slipped up there I think. Then there's the reference to "Trojan" condoms. AFAIK, the Trojan brand isn't available in the UK. A British person would have said "Durex". It could be a double-bluff of course... where's me deerstalker?

I think there's enough evidence to conclude that the masked madman is definitely American or Canadian... probably.

After a quick inspection I decided that my rear brake pads, while badly worn, had just one more event left in them. They didn't. Yep, it was a dumbass thing to do and after two extremely wet and muddy laps it was metal on metal time. Even more foolishly I pushed on and finished the event with an increasingly vague and noisy rear brake. Inevitably, the brake disk is now badly scratched although surprisingly, there aren't the deep gouges that I expected to find. If I simply chuck a new set of pads in there am I asking for more trouble other than an accelerated wear rate?

Send an email to Eurosport - there's an enquiry link on their site. Then wait a couple of weeks. Then get a very nice email from customer services containing a list of exactly on which dates and at what time each round will be shown (including repeats). Then howl in fustration when NONE of the rounds are shown when the email said they would be and the much-trumpeted live coverage never appears. That's what I did last year. Seriously, just keep an eye on the programme planner. Although in the case of Eurosport, even that isn't necessarily a reliable guide to what will actually be on. Because everyone in the UK is obviously more interested in staying with the tense final few hours of the Ukrainian amateur yak herding championships than seeing the next round of the WITC (as advertised), aren't they? Eurosport (along with Men and Motors) deserve some credit for showing trials at all but I just wish they'd sort out their scheduling.

Errrmm... TrialsTV? Y'know, as mentioned several times in this thread

Best changes I've made to my Rev-3 are installing a 32.5 pilot jet in place of the standard 30.0 (easier starting and completely cures the knocking under hard acceleration that some Betas seem to suffer from), clarkp's carb hose mod (cures the old Beta dribbly carb problem) and BillyT's float height mod (can't find the link at the mo but the details are here somewhere). You might want to check to see if your bike has a flywheel wight installed. My 2003 270 came with the weight removed and while it was fun to ride like that I eventually saw sense, reinstalled it and my results have improved significantly!

Wouldn't happen to be your auction would it? Tastes a bit spammy to me.

There was a custom black Mont in Feetup Trialsport in Scarborough the last time I was there. I haven't been in for a couple of weeks so I don't know if Alan's still got it. Was the bike bought from Feetup and subsequently stolen?

Because you are not running under ACU rules! Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how all this works (which is more than likely), I'd contend that this trial IS being run under ACU rules. The ACU issued the permit in the full knowledge that FIM rules will be applied. This represents implicit acceptance of liability in the event of an insurance claim. In effect, the ACU has adopted FIM rules for a single event, nothing more. I don't understand why this is a problem for people?

No, they're called "filthy peasants", also known as "servants". Oh, yeah: Shut up you t---!

I was talking about 2-strokes vs. 4-stroke in general. Sorry if that wasn't clear. A big part of the problem is that Joe Public doesn't know the difference between trials and MX. One noisy dirt bike = all dirt bikes are noisy and environmentally unfriendly and should therefore be banned. Whether you'd be able to hear the 4RT from half a mile away... well, I dunno and it depends on which way the wind is blowing but half a mile's not that far and I think you might be surprised. I personally don't think the 4RT is too loud. I like the sound it makes. If I had the cash for a new bike, I might even buy one (although I think I'll wait to see what Beta come up with first). But (and this is my point), the laws of physics state that the noise from a 4-stroke engine will travel further than the noise of a 2-stroke. And it's the objective perception of noise that's the issue, isn't it? I like it. In fact I like it so much I think it ought to go into production immediately. Anyone want to buy a "Trials Trumpet"?

But measuring the noise of a bike like this is meaningless in the context of what's being discussed. For example, say a 2-stroke tests at 90db and a 4-stroke tests at 87db. So the 4-stroke is quieter, right? Now perform the same test at 100m distance. The 4-stroke will test way, way higher than the 2-stroke. The key to all of this is the attenuation (decay) rate of the sound pressure wave and is (approximately) calculated as the square of the frequency (a = f^2). So a higher frequency sound decays exponentially faster (over a shorter distance) than a lower frequency sound. Remember it's unlikely that the kind of people who'll be complaining about the noise will be stood a couple of meters away from the bikes. It's the people in the houses half a mile away who'll only be hearing the "thump thump" of the 4-strokes who'll be on the 'phone to environmental health in the morning. The only solution is for manufacturers of 4-stroke bikes to concentrate of making those bike exponentially quieter than a (reference) 2-stroke. If this could be achieved, the 2006 model 4RT's exhaust note would still decay more slowly than that of (for example) a 270 Rev3, but due to the lower intensity of the pressure wave, the distance at which the sound becomes inaudible might be approximately the same. Unfortunately, current 4-stroke engine and exhaust design means that more noise = more power. Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

The problem with the 4RT (and all 4-strokes) is not the "loudness" (the number of dbs shown on a sound level meter at a distance of 2 metres), it's the lower frequency of the exhaust note that travels further and penetrates solid objects more effectively. As has been pointed out, the Beta 270 is, purely in terms of dbs, louder than the Montesa but the shorter wavelength of the sound means that is decays far more quickly. Lower frequencies travel further. And that's the real problem, I think. The 4RT would have to be much quieter than the Beta for the noise to dissipate completely over the same distance.

I know that it's probably a way off yet but the kind of objective comparitive test that we're talking about usually take a while to organise anyway, so how about next year's TC trial (maybe on the Saturday)? It'd give the rest of us mere mortals something interesting to watch instead of breaking our own bikes before the main event even starts.

Should say: "read carefully before replying". Sorry, keyboard diarrhea.

Point of order here: It'd help if people actually read the entire thread, especially those posts immediately preceeding their own before replying and wherever possible, quote the section of the post to which they are responding. There seem to be a number of fundamental misunderstandings going in here. For example, lastplace brad said (nothing personal, just the most obvious one): To which ishy replied: Isn't that exactly what lastplacebrad was saying? StuartC said: OK, so StuartC deserves applause for sticking around and responding to the "accusations", but a couple of previous posters (myself included) also made this point and I believe that is was well taken by the people to whom the comments were directed. Maybe I'm just a grumpy, pendantic old git* who spends far too long on Internet message boards (mostly non trials-related) and this thread is just the one in which I chose to rant, but simply reading the whole thread in context helps to avoid misunderstandings which can easily turn into unjustified grudges (I've seen it happen a million times) and keep things on-topic. Sorry. Pet peeve of mine. Normal service is resumed. * After consultation, I've discovered that I AM a grumpy, pendatic old git. Who'da thought it?

They've got absolutely nothing to do with WTC aspirations, Nigel. Just a figure of speech ("local" to illustrate the fact that I see Michael, Guy and the boys ride reguarly and "keep him honest" in that he doesn't always win by 20 marks or more). I'll try to be more literal in the future Although I've only read about the youth development schemes that they run in Spain and Italy, they seem to streets ahead of (sorry: "far better funded and supportive than" ) the ACU academy and maybe a doubling of the license fee wouldn't be unreasonable if it'll help get more of our younger riders into the upper echelons of the sport. Having said that, I'll admit that I know very little about how the ACU academy is funded or run so I'll leave it to those people with more knowledge and experience than myself to debate that point.

Michael's a local lad and still "competes" in most SDMC trials so I get to watch him ride reguarly, (to be honest, it's usually a bit of a whitewash unless Ian Austermuhle shows up but there are a few other guys who keep him honest - Guy Kendrew and a couple of others). There's no doubt that he's an amazing rider and will very soon be worrying the British championship class, but I guess experience counts for almost as much as raw ability at world level and Beta has other talented and more experienced riders. Michael will make it I'm sure, but give him a couple of years!

Adsy, take a look at this thread. This is how trials work at many (if not most) clubs around the country. They're not ACU rules and they're not FIM rules - they're simplified hybrid of both. So from your point of view, any event where the observers aren't fully trained and apply the rulebook to the letter is guilty of devaluing the sport. At an amateur level, for most people sport IS a hobby. And there's nothing wrong with that in my book. I seriously doubt whether I'll ever be any better than a mid-pack clubman rider but I really don't care. I enjoy myself and I enjoy my HOBBY. Congratulations to the BDMC for trying something different. After attending the (BDMC organised) TC trial last year, I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever been made more welcome or ridden a better organised event. If it were at all possible, I'd be there on the 26th. You ask "what's the point?". I'd reply "why not?" Sorry Adsy, I think you're way off the mark here and if I'm misunderstanding you it's because you're doing a very good job of misrepresenting yourself.

The 250 is far more popular than the 270 'round these parts. No idea why. The previous owner of my 270 had removed the flywheel weight, advanced the timing and and installed a quick action throttle It was fun to ride with that setup but potentially lethal Anyway, after putting everything back to factory spec and setting the carb up with a 35 pilot jet and using BillyT's float height and clarkp's vent pipe mods, it now pulls like a tractor in all gears but still with enough snap to splat up the side of a cliff if required. No doubt about it, my next bike will be another Beta 270.

With regards to the power delivery characteristics, the torque curve of a 4-stroke (when plotted against rpm) is far steeper than that of a 2-stroke and this is fundamentally the reason why a 4-stroke bike seems to gip better on low friction surfaces. It's not as noticeable on an enduro or motocross bike due to the higher speeds involved but on a trials machine, more torque at lower rpms means that it's theoretically less likely to break traction. This also accounts for why a 4-stroke bike tends to wear it's tyres more quickly - while the rear wheel spends less time spinning than a 2-stroke (which you'd have thought would result in less tyre wear), the comparitively high torque being delivered to the tyre knobs creates a high-pressure "grinding" effect and that's where the real wear occurs. Torque = F x D where F is the force being applied perpendicular to the axis of the actuator (in this case, the rear sprocket) and D is the distance from that point to the axis itself (the radius of the rear sprocket). My old physics textbooks (from which I'm getting this info ) doesn't tell me how to convert HP to directional weight to perform the calculations in context Anyone help me out?

The Beta 270 may be louder but that's irrelevant. It's the frequency and wavelength that determines how far a sound travels and lower frequency sound travels further (and penetrate solid objects more effectively) than higher frequencies. That's why when you walk past a pub all you can hear is the "thump thump" of the bass until you open the door at which point the bass becomes less distinct and the other "instruments" are suddenly much more audible. Decibels aren't the primary factor in determining a sound's ability to carry over distance. A Rev-3 270 could be twice as "loud" (in terms of dbs) as a 4RT, but if both bikes were stood next to each other being revved hard, it'd be the 4RT that you'd hear most clearly when stood some distance away.