Week 21 - Where Now For Britain?

[cota kid]

I would have thought the North of England or Scotland would be more attractive than the Midlands or Southern England. A greater number of trials enthusiasts and more options for a suitable venue.

[bikespace]

Getting towards North of England maybe. not sure about Scotland. My nephew lives borders areas, but gets nowhere near the choice of trials that we do down in the midlands - I'm jumping to conclusions that it means less people with a trials interest. It would be interesting to see what the distribution of trials riders/enthusiasts is. The problem down here some times is deciding which one of 4 trials to go to within 50 miles.

The advantage of Hawkestone is a big local catchment area (midlands,Cheshire, Mid/North Wales), but places within 2-3 hours include Lancashire, Teeside, North London, Bristol/Bath, South Wales, Scottish Borders. It's not a massive hike for anyone in those areas or nearer.

[rosey]

Merthyr Tydfil held the round a couple of times was it 83 then 89?. That was OK.

There are far better venues for sections than Hawkstone Park, but as mentioned the hassle of getting all the big trucks to site is now the biggest problem.

Miller has his head screwed on, so I'd believe him if he can't find a suitable venue. I guess we all know of venues that on the surface are great, but logistically they wont work.

We generally have the public against us in the UK. After all in the sunnier climates people use bikes everyday so they can relate to them. This will never change. Plus the 'law' in the UK wont allow us to essentially shut places down for a while

However, if you find any venue in Yorkshire it will be no good 'cus we are tight sods and wont pay any entry fees ...so on that note a road trial is better. Its harder to patrol and therefore its easier to get to watch without paying!!!!

I was surprised in Spain a couple of years ago though.... pleasantly surprised (being a Yorkshireman). We turned up at Punta Pajares (?? ho ho Paja!!!) and I offered to pay the entry fee... my Spanish friends said 'What entry fee?'. There was no fee, not even to park the car!

How do they make it pay in Spain?

[Andy]

Miller has his head screwed on

I'm not too sure about that!

I was surprised in Spain a couple of years ago though.... pleasantly surprised (being a Yorkshireman). We turned up at Punta Pajares (?? ho ho Paja!!!) and I offered to pay the entry fee... my Spanish friends said 'What entry fee?'. There was no fee, not even to park the car!

How do they make it pay in Spain?

The Spanish (and other coutries) get support from local authories, tourism boards etc, plus they don't have the beuracracy and red tape we face in the UK.

[scottt]

Alton Towers, has all the parking and facilities and as you can see from the pic has sections already in place.

[perce]

What about here?

[windlestone]

What about here?

See 12th July Kinnell's wearing his new helmet

[rabie]

electricity - some places (MX GPs) use mains, others hire in industrial generators

south - i think it was more a severn to wash line but you get what i mean. i'm not saying its true or not, but one would get a bigger crowd IMHO in the north.

[nigel dabster]

Alton Towers, has all the parking and facilities and as you can see from the pic has sections already in place.

Give them a call, its 6k for a wedding so you could probably quadruple that for a world trial.

[jimmyl]

Are the ACU prepared to back a WTC or is the risk all down to the club/organiser. I think a few clubs might have a go if they where not going to be left high and dry if things went wrong

Anyway I reckon we should make all these foreigners park in a muddy field with no power or loos and then ride in mud and slime, lets see how good these prima donnas are in conditions we normally put up with!!!

[atomant]

Are the ACU prepared to back a WTC or is the risk all down to the club/organiser.

Interesting idea but I think that the ACU simply wouldn't entertain running a WTC or sponsoring one simply because they are the custodians of our money and if you ran a poll asking whether they should spend money on a WTC I expect you would find that it wouldn't be well supported. As has been said many a time on here, the WTC is miles away from what most club riders recognise as trials so therefore where does helping the WTC benefit them?

Not necessarily an argument I agree with but thats how it is I think!

IMHO

[rabie]

its not within the scope of the T&E committee to back or even underwrite financially the UK round. Don't get me wrong they will undoubtedly assist and facilitate on a variety of other areas.

[john collins]

Quite a lot of speculation about future World rounds - it is quite a complex issue and involves lots of things outside our control ( FIM homologation etc)

Just as a passing comment - the ACU - or at least the Trials & Enduro Committee have run the World Trials twice - and that included bringing the event to Hawkstone for the first time.

Each member of the Committee did a specific job - Frank Carter ( Chairman before me) was Clerk of Course , Tim Fairbrother co-ordinated sections, Malcolm Bates organised the supply and transport of the rocks close to the podium and so on.

My job was to produce and sell the programmes! ( some said I should have been in charge of toilets)

As to finanace - yes the ACU laid out the money - and even those few years ago the costs were horrendous.

We had good weather - and a good crowd at Hawkstone - and at the end of it all cleared about 1k.

Unfortunately a rider - French I think - argued with an Observer and was excluded - but it went to appeal - and Frank and others had to attend the hearing in Geneva - which we lost - so the 1k went down the swanny to pay for costs etc.

The reason we did it was to prove that it could be done in UK - and the next year Tim Fairbrither and the Midland Centre took up the challenge - and with what had been learnt running it as T & E another World round was run - and also a European if my memory is correct.

Things move on however - and without doubt it is now far more complex and certainly far more costly to put the thing on now - I know we as the T & E laid out about 40k - I would hazard a guess it is far more than double that now - and the return would not be that great - so anyone who thinks it is a big money spinner should probably foget it.

Will it come back to the UK - who knows ? There are several places that could provide the infra structure - such as parking/facilities/ toilets etc - but then have no suitable sections.

There are several places that can provide the sections - but no infra structure etc - it is finding somewhere with both that is the problem - and geographically suitable for getteing thousands of people through the gate.

It is actually the same problem now trying to get the World Enduro - scheduled for Hafren 08 off the ground.

Course and S/Tests excellent - but finding large tarmarced area for the huge trucks and vans etc very difficult.

However - never say never - and I would certainly hope that World trials are not lost to the UK for too long

[scrappington]

Not sure what problems would occur but Low North Park near Scarborough is an ideal location it is very similar to Hawkstone Park. As said in previous quotes access could be a problem for the bigger trucks but these could park up outside the park (lots of sites) putting the youth (under age road riding) inside the park with the juniors.

The club is very well organised and has all the facilities required for a fantastic trial venue. AND I live nearby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Club website http://www.scarboroughdmc.co.uk/new/

[bikespace]

Low North Park was my first thought when they were looking around. Not sure how much consideration has gone in to using it to date.

I've not been there for 20 years but from what it was then, I can remember a fair bit of parking, but probably not parking for a few thousand cars once the area has been fenced off for paddock/trade stands/food places.

The car parks were split a mile or so apart, so not ideal. Are there some fields nearby to spread in to for camping?

How many big sections you got up there. I'm sure that you could find well over 15 world round sections throughout Low North Park, but are they close enough to get crowds between them?

From photo's I've seen you've got a load of rocks in below the Bailey Bridge now (if its still a Bailey Bridge) so maybe you've added a few already?

Is there access to water up there? I know its a consideration but I'd imagine there might be now?

I'm not picking holes at it here by the way, as I said it was my first thought, just wondering if we can stumble across any potential problems/fixes.

I don't suppose we'll get to hear too much about the financial position of Hawkstone, but I hope they managed to break even at least. To be honest I'd prefer they made a whacking great profit off it - no skin off my nose, and if for someone to be able to make a profit out of these big trials is what we need. I have a feeling though that the truth is much closer to breaking even. Well done to Jake/Martin and all of the massive number of people that get involved in this sort of event anyway. Would be good to see it back here one day soon.