coxy Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 hi everyone just wondered if you could help, ive got a 2006 gg pro 250 and the clutch feel is extremely hard to pull in and let out to the point where its giving me pain in my arms and cramp even after riding just one section. the thing is ive replaced the clutch pack and re measured that and its fine and also had a full new set of seals and o-rings in because i thought that may be the problem. how do i get the clutch so its light again without spending hundreds of pounds on it?? ive been told a bigger bore clutch pipe and larger master cylinder and piston but would these really help at all?? any ideas on what could be the cause of this extremely heavy clutch ive tried alot of other bikes both the same year and younger/older and they all have clutches 4 times lighter than what mine is!! ive also just had a new full gearbox in the bike lately, could this affect the clutch feel in any way or not?? im completely out of ideas now and the way the clutch is at the moment its unbearable to ride so any help would be much appreciated! coxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdenzil Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 A standard GG clutch with the small master cylinder does have resistance but not overbearing. The addition of a large master cylinder ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickj Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I had a similar problem on an 04 250 following fitting a new clutch pack. It turned out to be simply a build up of material under the diaphragm spring. I took the pack apart and cleaned the plates and the spring and all instantly back to normal light clutch. I assume the material came from the new plates themselves as although I had oiled them I had not cleaned them before fitting. Only takes 15 minutes so maybe worth a try? Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 yeah ive done the cleaning of all clutch parts etc inside the casing and ensured that all of them are clean before putting them back into the bike, ive had the clutch completely to bits about 5 or 6 times now trying to get the thing right but thanks for the idea anyway mate. will the bigger master cylinder definitely make such a vast improvement because to be honest i cant see how it can as it works in exactly the same way as the smaller one and moves the same amount of fluid doesnt it?? i know that the clutch pack height is fine as ive had it apart several times and measured it with calibrated measuring equipment so its not that and even had other people from work do this too and they all have had the same reading and that is fine. how could the clutch mechanism be a problem, any light into what to maybe check would be appreciated because from what i can see its working fine. im using putoline light gear oil at the minute in the bike, should i use a different oil or is this one ok? ive used this from new so cant see how changing the oil would make any difference! thanks for your help and comments coxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1979 Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I may be wrong but i was told using putoline light gear oil was not good for your clutch infact it could cause the cork on the friction plate's to come off, sound strange but thats what i was told, so i changed to atf dexron 3 and i'm not joking i noticed my clutch was lighter and smoother, i told a mate who was also using putoline in his 09 beta evo and he switched to atf and now say's the same thing that the clutch is lighter and smoother, well worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjbiker Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I would assume you've seen the 'clutch.wmv' and rebuilt your own clutch pack the same way? If not, here's the link - 'Clutchy Linky' Does the 'top hat' piston move without resistance with the clutch casing off? If it does then I reckon the belleville spring would be the main reason for it being so heavy? What was it you replaced? is there any drag when running? Some oils will swell the friction plates but only after some period of time, stick to ATF to be on the safe side. GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Could it be possible when i had the new gearbox fitted that the main shaft is not quite central,causing the clutch to be slightly further over.Because I have only had this problem since the new gearbox has been fitted and just thought of this as an idea? Also would it be possible for the belleville spring to cause a heavy clutch and will it sort it if replaced?,and is it possible to get different strength springs to make the clutch lighter? yeah ive done the clutch myself several times now so i know that it isnt the assembly of the clutch that is wrong and also yes the top hat does move freely, its just had new o rings in it and now moves very freely. so far ive replaced all seals to do with the clutch and also the full clutch pack both steels and fibres. on the dragging side no there is no drag whatso ever its fine in the actual performance its just extremely heavy. i cant see how changing the oil will make any difference ive run putoline light all its life and it has been fine before the gearbox change so i dont think that will make any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1 Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 its nothing to do with the shaft Big master cylinders wont make it lighter but more reliable Big hose will make it lighter old type (steel) bajo bolt will make it lighter bigger drilings Make sure the hose is not traped behind the coil Take casing off put presure on top hat and pull lever in and out to see how free the fluid is moving to and frow The flater your fingers are sitting the harder your clutch will be best clutch pack hight is 9.80 can be less if it is a 125 There are 2 bevel springs an 06 should have i think a 1.4 not a 1.7 Make sure all the 10 post that bolts go into are all driven home if 1 of these are not you are puting more presure on the spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 any ideas on what could be the cause of this extremely heavy clutch ive tried alot of other bikes both the same year and younger/older and they all have clutches 4 times lighter than what mine is!! It's hard to tell what the cause is, could be a tolerance problem and the tophat/sidecover post clearance is too little. As I remember, the 06' is the first year of the light (thinner) Belville spring, designed to lessen the pull resistance. Before you get a new master cylinder, you might try: (1) change trans oil to Type-F ATF and (2) change clutch fluid to DOT-5 (Silicone), which reportedly reduces resistance about 20% on the lever and makes for a smoother engagement. Be aware that you'll need to flush the system completely first. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas4life Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 i cant see how changing the oil will make any difference ive run putoline light all its life and it has been fine before the gearbox change so i dont think that will make any difference. Worth a try isn't it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 yeah its worth trying it out with the oil i just cant see how after using the same oil for nearly 4 years that it could suddenly change. im going to go home tonight and try the belleville spring as ive got like 5 in the garage and my dad has measured them and weve got them ranging from 1.2 to 1.7mm so im guessing the thinnest one would be best right?? also going to try with the thing about taking the casing off and seeing if its hard to pull still etc to eliminate it been a hydraulic problem. my clutch pack height has been measured several times and is around 9.82mm so that is fine maybe on the large side but its in tolerance so not going to bother changing that at all. im getting mixed messages about the bigger hose thing as some people say it will make it lighter and some dont. has anyone actually puty a bigger hose on and noticed any difference?? thanks for all your help guys its been a massive help to try and eliminate the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 It sounds like you have the clutch belville spring and the steel clutch plates mixed up. It dawned on me that you may not have the clutch plates back in the right order - you need to make sure the thickest one goes in 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boorad Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 when i had same problem with sons 04 125 it turned out to be water/coolant getting past pump seal. replaced pump spindle (groove in shaft) and seal changed oil, been ok since. did the stuff you've done but couldn't cure was told to check this by guy in club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikb Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I would give Kev at GasGas UK a ring, or maybe the slave cylinder seals have swelled making its operation stiff??? I had an 06 250 and the clutch was fine so you shouldnt need different master cylinders or hoses. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterb Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Hi coxy, The only times I have seen/known about Pro clutches being hard to pull in was when the clutch plates had swollen, altering the 10 finger lever height. And, one other time with a trapped clutch hose that was kinked from the factory, trapped behind the HT coil, a new hose fixed this though in this case the symptoms were that the clutch was ok to pull in but did not release as quickly as it should have (reduced cross sectional area in the hose not allowing the fluid to return quickly). So......... have a look at the clutch finger height when assembled, not necessarily the pack height, the determining factor for final clutch actuation is in the finger height - these act as levers pivoting on a fulcrum (the central ring on the clutch hub) and rely on the clutch pack being low enough to provide good mechanical advantage, a bit like a kids see-saw in a park. The finger height should be at least 17.0mm from the centre hub, if lower then the clutch pack is too high, as the clutch pack affects the opposite end of the fingers from their fulcrum - t'other end of the see-saw. You should easily be able to actuate the clutch release by pressing your thumb over the top of the levers, if the levers are parallel to the outer surface of the clutch hub, then they are definately too low, they should be sticking upward. Hope this helps. Bye, PeterB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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