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kramit

Checking Nightmare

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I have a friend who rode one of the senior classes in Ca and apparently was given a 5 when the exhaust from his 4T blew over a marker....

Steve

First off that would not be a 5. That is what this rule fixed. An example would be going over a log, but 2 ft away the marker falls off. You have to actually touch the marker, not some stupid rock or other poor way of placement falls apart while you are in a section. Now on the bad side, all the riders will have to deal with bad placement of the markers. Nothing worse than a whole trials of some trialsmaster trying to force the direction of the rider at every critical spot instead of using the natural boundries.

The NATC tries to always use FIM rules. One of the reasons is so our Pro riders are competing with the same current rules. The Trials de Nations teams are then already prepared, so no surprise at the event.

This rule is not going to change, so we might as well get used to it. I think it is a better rule. The problem is for years we have always pushed the limit by riding over the splits. You can use ribbon to fix it some what. A ribbon connected to an outside tape can be ridden over. A ribbon connected to an inside marker(split) cannot be touched. This is the part of the rule that could use some tweaking. Very confusing to all invovled.

I hope I have explained it correctly. I spoke with two NATC board members this last weekend and they do not see this as that much an issue as the rule is pretty basic. Touch a split maker get ready to see a full hand fom the scorer!!

Edited by lineaway

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First off that would not be a 5. That is what this rule fixed. An example would be going over a log, but 2 ft away the marker falls off. You have to actually touch the marker, not some stupid rock or other poor way of placement falls apart while you are in a section. Now on the bad side, all the riders will have to deal with bad placement of the markers. Nothing worse than a whole trials of some trialsmaster trying to force the direction of the rider at every critical spot instead of using the natural boundries.

The NATC tries to always use FIM rules. One of the reasons is so our Pro riders are competing with the same current rules. The Trials de Nations teams are then already prepared, so no surprise at the event.

This rule is not going to change, so we might as well get used to it. I think it is a better rule. The problem is for years we have always pushed the limit by riding over the splits. You can use ribbon to fix it some what. A ribbon connected to an outside tape can be ridden over. A ribbon connected to an inside marker(split) cannot be touched. This is the part of the rule that could use some tweaking. Very confusing to all invovled.

I hope I have explained it correctly. I spoke with two NATC board members this last weekend and they do not see this as that much an issue as the rule is pretty basic. Touch a split maker get ready to see a full hand fom the scorer!!

All good info Bob except for the part about internal tape. Basically.......Tape is Tape

FIM rules say contact with the tape is treated the same when used for section boundry or as part of an internal split. NATC is the same and this was clarified before the So Cal National.

Last year the first few FIM rounds had trouble with this rule just like we are having now, but its working better for them now.

I had my doubts at first. Sort of like the cure being worse that the disease. We all know the marker should not be the obstacle.

but we've all seen splits trampled and shreded until they fail and some poor guy gets a five when it finally falls.

It will require more caution when setting sections. also contact with some splits will be hard for the observer to see.

We need to make our split cards smaller.

We need to use as few splits as necessary.

I think it is something we can learn.

......and this story about the 5 for a card blown over by exhaust is very doubtful. I'll ask our observers if anyone knows anything about this.

Edited by Martin Belair
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Nice reply MB. The internal tape story was from the rules chairman? I`m sure it will be a learning experience for all concerned. By the way I would have added 4 more 5`s to my score yesterday using these rules , but we do not use them yet!

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I was at the first four rounds, as I hear most riders were not happy with the new rule. One thing that needs to happen is who ever sets up a section needs to learn to put the split card in a better location so the split card is not an issue. I feel that a judge should have to see you touch a split card not just say I seen it move. I for one do not like the new rule. The natc is set to follow the fim rules right or wrong.

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Nice reply MB. The internal tape story was from the rules chairman? I`m sure it will be a learning experience for all concerned. By the way I would have added 4 more 5`s to my score yesterday using these rules , but we do not use them yet!

I had a bit of intension to dig into the rulebook for a review, yet, to be honest I could not find it on the new US Mototrials website.

Once again, best I recall, these are indeed not simple split markers, yet "gates" which essentially means two opposing markers with a set min width of what was it? 48inches as a minimum?

Although some of these may be combined as such some riders go left and others go right, as with a simple split marker, the outer boundries of these should be there as well in these "gates" and marking system. Yet the fact in itself thet there are indeed two markers required fir each "gate" as stated does in itself present other hazards within the marking system and doubles the potential of abuse as I presume all would need to be placed within the taped section boundries and not just outside of them and out of the way.

This in itself may present challenges to section builders dependant upon the terrain and space limitations, yet long story made short of just how all this plays into the actual trials is currently a bit of a question!!!!!

No, we do not want or need riders riding over or trampling down the markers, yet this issue of "toutching one" does seem a bit extreme and once again the markers is not the obsticle, so choose carefully here section builders!

Once again, I would be hard pressed to apply this rule in a club trial, and at best use it on some the top locals to keep them in ck a bit possibly, as one well knows they will indeed use every inch you give them. Do I see a double standard here? Possibly?

Job as observer would be to administer points to riders under observation. Applying these rules in a fair manner should be as well.

Someone please correct me, because I may be totally off about it all, yet I am still finding the rule easy to ignore in a club event.

Edited by copemech

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Martin

I tried to send you a PM but your box is not accepting anything.

We need to talk, Please e-mail at williamtraynor@hotmail.com

Thanks

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Hey Martin

I tried to respond to your e-mail you sent me today but your regular e-mail account says that your box is full?

Let me know when it is clear so that I can send my response.

Cheers

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I believe the reason for the "cannot touch split markers" rule had been adopted, my guess is because there is a HUGE problem with, people actually riding the split marker, 3 riders ride up with tires right on the split marker like they have in the past, then rider #4 does same exact ride, the marker falls off, he's fived PLUS now the marker cannot be re-stapled, re-glued, or whatever held the marker is gone!!! (just thinking logically, you can chime in) and without the tools that the trials master had when setting up all the sections, months ago, it pretty much changes the section.

So it seems to me, someone thought, well from now on you cannot touch the split marker, and IMHO that is a good idea, except Everyone is not placing markers where maybe this "brushing them, while turning a tight turn" from another rider's line, would NOT be an issue? It is a tough problem, I have seen split markers (not at nationals, lol) placed in Bizaar places, like 8ft above your sight line, up a tree, no problem with hitting that marker, but everyone missed it too, because who looks up there except the guy that put it up there, lol...

It think it will be stupid to try to make RIBON and TAPE off limits or "cant touch this" as well...

Yet I wanna add to this discussion... I still think it is STOOPID, that you cannot wipe your face, eyes or fix your glasses with foot down... To me, it is a SAFETY ISSUE on that rule that is outdated, from the days when they had straps on rear to move the bike around. I think they need to allow you to wipe your face/eyes/glasses area... If you go anywhere else with your hand, then five I guess. this includes your butt crack and or genitals adjustments... :popcorn: lol. Probably doesnt affect some of you that dont sweat in 90-100 degree heat I guess.

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It is a tough rule in some of the sections.Son got 2 fives for just brushing marker with his pants.Back wheel slid over on rock between tree with markers.Got several for touching edge of split.

Martin is right the markers need to be smaller.And placed where they can be easily cleared.JR

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"Martin is right the markers need to be smaller.And placed where they can be easily cleared"..........Belair is never right about these things.......What does he know about trials anyway.

Edited by d. sileo

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Sileo! nice to hear from you. how you been?

Yes, making sure the markers are well placed is gonna be more worked for the section setters, just what they need.

Edited by martin belair

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Martin:

You beat me to it when I saw Dom's name on the list! I think its been sometime since he's been on here! How are you??

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Hi Martin and Steve,

I am at home recovering from yet another major surgery, so I thought I would jump on to my favorite site and see what my pal's were up too. It's good to hear from both of you as well. I hope all is well with you and yours Martin and Steve. Setting sections is hard work. I have done it at a World, National and local level. No mattter how hard you work to make it perfect something or someone isn't happy in the end.

Edited by d. sileo

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Hey Dom:

Nice to hear from you! Wow, major surgery sure puts things in perspective...I Hope you are recovering well!! I am all good here...getting old, and watching my kids get bloody big! :D My son has just turned 16 and riding Expert up here with all the big boys. Plan is to do a full US National series next year. Perhaps we may bump into you, schedule permitting. Take care of yourself!

Steve

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Great to hear from you aswell Steve. Same here, getting old and watching my kids make their way in the World. I would love to host you and your family on your travels next season. If the schedule brings you two to the East coast you can plan on spending a few days with me and my family here on my Farm in PA...Let me know , this offer stands into next season and onward. Always happy to help a trails family on the road. Right Martin ? Martin has spent a few days here with me on the farm on a few occassions. Always a great time riding and hanging with Belair even when on the rare occasion he posts a lower score than me in one of our local events....

Edited by d. sileo

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