ducati996 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Its called public opinion or freedom of speech,everybody is entitled to it,as for being more active at you're club or work party that aint gonna change nothing the FIM or ACU will still carry on playing god and making decisions regardless,go and look at Moto GP and see what a good job the FIM have managed to do there. Trials has evolved,you dont go backwards to move forward,we have a lot of talented youngsters in this country just the ACU have not got a structure in place to bring them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Blimey, a lot of topics & issues covered there, John Collins I have to agree with all of them Trials has changed a lot, WC was hard 30 years ago & it is now It has evolved & stop allowed inspires a lot of today's young'uns Stop allowed has no interest for me though, I'm too old but I still try to ride & participate Don't know if I'm a typical returning rider, but here goes I'm 47 & I'm an occasional rider maybe once a month I started Trials at the age of 13 introduced by an enthusiastic Dad Trials on Dartmoor as a schoolboy was a challenge, but achievable & I rode every weekend along with 10 school friends - we had fun I carried on until about 20 ish & then got into trailriding/ Enduro in Yorkshire - before returning to trials in my 40's Now I have no desire to ride the big stuff & admire the youngsters that do - they are amazing I can't ride like that, so all I want today is a good day's ride feel like I've a good day's sport & a bit of craic So I participate, but have to choose my trials carefully because some are way above my ability - hence a lack of participation some weeks as there are non within my ability So that puts me off & sometimes there is a perception that it's too difficult with stop allowed & big rocks etc Therefore no stop is generally to my liking because I can have a bash I think there is a big gulf between my age group & the under 30's in skill level & it's wider than it has ever been Some people say, buy a Twinshock & ride an easy course - but I want to ride a modern bike but on realistic courses This is where participation falls down, as John says many people are put off by the difficulty & grass roots dies off For me I'm going to ride the trials I can manage & help observing the ones that are too difficult for me, so I'm still involved I'm not sure what the answer is, but for sure the bikes are too specialised and the courses are too hard now, for many of grass roots competitors Edited November 11, 2012 by johnnyboxer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati996 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Blimey, a lot of topics & issues covered there I have to agree with all of them Trials has changed a lot, WC was hard 30 years ago & it is now It has evolved & stop allowed inspires a lot of today's young'uns No stop has no interest for me though, I'm too old but I still try to ride & participate Don't know if I'm a typical returning rider, but here goes I'm 47 & I'm an occasional rider maybe once a month I started Trials at the age of 13 introduced by an enthusiastic Dad Trials on Dartmoor as a schoolboy was a challenge, but achievable & I rode every weekend along with 10 school friends - we had fun I carried on until about 20 ish & then got into trailriding/ Enduro in Yorkshire - before returning to trials in my 40's Now I have no desire to ride the big stuff & admire the youngsters that do - they are amazing I can't ride like that, so all I want today is a good day's ride feel like I've a good day's sport & a bit of craic So I participate, but have to choose my trials carefully because some are way above my ability - hence a lack of participation some weeks as there are non within my ability So that puts me off & sometimes there is a perception that it's too difficult with stop allowed & big rocks etc Therefore no stop is generally to my liking because I can have a bash I think there is a big gulf between my age group & the under 30's in skill level & it's wider than it has ever been Some people say, buy a Twinshock & ride an easy course - but I want to ride a modern bike but on realistic courses This is where participation falls down, as John says many people are put off by the difficulty & grass roots dies off For me I'm going to ride the trials I can manage & help observing the ones that are too difficult for me, so I'm still involved I'm not sure what the answer is, but for sure the bikes are too specialised and the courses are too hard now, for many of grass roots competitors Dont understand when you say the courses are to hard for many competitors,down here we have the b grade trial which normaly has 3 routes easy,hard & for the ones who cant make there minds up 50/50,i find its the youth that get it hard,they are chucked in at the deep end normally on a course thats to hard for them on a bike thats to big for them and a club who could not care less about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Cabestany obviously thinks this is no-stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Scotland was all big grippy rocks with massive steps and a circus? Cumbria is the most manmade wtc that I have seen in the last 8 years. Which spanish round as these vary greatly,andorra is very natural as was the rounds in Galicia. I think to make sweeping statments that the wtc is this or that should be based on experience rather than prejudice, or altering the facts to suit your argument. That's a rathers sad and sorry response Nigel. I'm not trying to make any arguments or influence anyone else's view, merely expressing my own personal opinion. It is an opinion based on seeing some natural sections and some very man made sections and having a prefernce for the former. I totally agree with you on Cumbria and struggle to see how a no-stop trial will work at this venue, which is the point of my opinion, that no-stop makes sense to me as part of a suite of changes. I noticed that the final Moto GP round was today, if you can go road racing in November it is a shame to me that the WTC wrapped up in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Well said Andy,could not have said it better myself,my son is 10yrs old and does trials,he also has a trials push bike & all he wants to do is the trick riding,if people want no stop then do twinshock or have a word with there club ,but to introduce it at national & international level is like jumping out of a plane without a parachute. Where does it say they are banning trick riding? There is a serious lack of vision among some of you. This will create a new integrated riding style. What if we rename it Trick Riding with Motion. Does that help? Watch a Danny Mac video. He is all about motion. Some of the best parts of the vid are his transitional moves. Edited November 11, 2012 by martin belair 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Cabestany obviously thinks this is no-stop Don't matter what he thinks? It is what the observer thinks? Suppose a bit like when they roll back and get away with it? maybe a ''stop'' might be marked to the letter of the law, but hell it won't make a difference? You still got the old Bulto Andrew reckon it might be coming back into fashion!!!! Edited November 11, 2012 by gizza5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john collins Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Free speech is fine Opinion is fine Of course it is interesting . It achieves ? Absolutely nothing in the context of the title of these posts. There can be no logic whatsoever in saying that FIM, ACU, or anyone else will continue to act like Gods, or not listen, move the sport backwards, or anything else, and then say that there is no real need to be involved. Replace the Gods, Put some effort in. How did the various rules evolve in the first place – not by free speech, but by people trying something different. There were many fee speecher’s who decried the move away from No—Stop in first place , there were many free- speecher’s who decried the move away from 1 for a stop ( probably the best system of the lot?) there were many free-speecher’s who decried the UK for sticking with the 1 for a stop when all others forsook it . Not such a bad idea now many think? If anyone has never attended a Club or Centre meeting and especially a Trials forum in their area or at National level ( the forums are open and are cancelled year after year through lack of attendees) ( wait for the excuses – too far, no time, too busy, nobody listens to me, if only, I would if I could or if someone would come with and hold my hand) then change will be hard to come by regardless of your views. There is a clear misunderstanding of how things work. Not many are really that interested, far easier to just make glib comments about those who put the work in whenever a particular thing does not suit. The people who make decisions do not fall from the sky – they are elected or appointed The FIM and UEM Commissions are made up of people from various Federations. The people in these Federations are made up from people from various areas/regions Centres ( just terminology varies between countries.) The people in these areas/regions/Centres are made up from people within Clubs. It is Clubs who in the main ( coupled with some Promoters) organise trials. I do not know in many decades anyone on FIM/ UEM/ACU/AMCA/MCF/YMSA /ORPA etc who has not come up from grass level sport. Many have been riders organisers or both. Many still are. It is not just an ACU problem , it is across the board - Do as we think, not as we do. I am told it i9s much same in other sports. It is of course a great shame that none of these bodies take into account free speechers, or those with lots of opinions, but there you go If someone is not involved in any of the points 1 – 7 I initially made, they are not actively involved in the organisation of that sport. Of course they can be riders, and that is important BUT it achieves nothing in the terms of change. It is exactly the same as me watching and reading about the Olympics, and then telling the organisers what they should do to ensure they make diving better. There are bound to be many people who have a view on anything and everything. I have no doubt that their capabilities are excellent BUT unless they get involved – it just means theory. It resorts, as I have said before to just expounding how it should all be done – but not actually doing anything. It then follows that when change takes place, for good or bad, the easy option is just to throw out a bit more opinion. There is absolutely no reason why anyone in UK for many years should not be able to ride in a trial they think best ie Stop Allowed or No – Stop. The choice is there. Go along to your own Club and ask them to run the trial of your choice. If there are only a minority of like minded souls, that choice may not be forthcoming – but still no problem, just get the few who agree with your sentiments to help out and run such a trial , and show by example that it works. The Stop and No-Stop rule is a red herring and just allows people to express opinion without making any effort to tackle the real problems – reason, they are boring, difficult and require work. There is no glamour in expressing an opinion about finding and maintaining venues, preventing competitors leaving litter all over a farmers field, driving through the lanes responsibly on way to event, treating Observers with the respect they deserve, occasionally writing to an organiser after the event with a few thanks, looking at the viability of an event in relation to entry fees , trying to fight off legislation which threatens within weeks the very freedom we have enjoyed in UK to run many of our events, and so on and so on – all boring stuff – leave to to the Gods. If the theory is that at anyone’s own Club is running OK - why are so many worrying about World Trials ? Is it just a case of jumping on a bandwagon to express an opinion? Let it runs its course - the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. If nothing else we may then get a chance to have a few years off from this constant bickering about rules that has been a canker in the side of trials for so many years. It can easily move back. How many who were enthusiastic about past World Trials offered any help to the organiser for last year UK WC ? How many will offer to help this year? Once more I suspect down to others Yes there are some very good young riders in UK - and yes we should promote and help them – but hey – here’s a thought – what about putting on a few Youth A & B for them – do not worry about the rules – worry about the lack of events applied for in the 2013 calendar. Is it once more a case of expressing concern and free speech about youngsters, but then hoping someone else will put an event on for them? Make their parents trawl long and expensive distances because the lack of events force little thought is possible as to the geographical placement of Championship events. The points I posed 1 - 8 about some kind of participation are valid . Every rider in the UK could and should be able to achieve at least one of them in any given year. If not stop making excuses and just accept that you are leaving it all to others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati996 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Where does it say they are banning trick riding? There is a serious lack of vision among some of you. This will create a new integrated riding style. What if we rename it Trick Riding with Motion. Does that help? Watch a Danny Mac video. He is all about motion. Some of the best parts of the vid are his transitional moves. Well lets hope the youngsters see it that way,because if they dont trials in 20/30 yrs time will still be a very secretive sport with the minority doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Well lets hope the youngsters see it that way,because if they dont trials in 20/30 yrs time will still be a very secretive sport with the minority doing it The youngsters will figure it out quickly. It's going to take the adults a bit longer. Edited November 11, 2012 by martin belair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I believe Mr Collins speaks the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth ... And it applies world wide ... Get out and help !!!! Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I believe Mr Collins speaks the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth ... And it applies world wide ... Get out and help !!!! Glenn Agreed. Like the old saying says, "Decisions are made by those that show up" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati996 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 The youngsters will figure it out quickly. It's going to take the adults a bit longer. The youngsters aint gonna figure it out if they dont get involved,there is a lack of youngsters in trials as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati996 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Agreed. Like the old saying says, "Decisions are made by those that show up" But he has not done much for youth trials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 could you do a better job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.