Looking For A Twinshock

[adrianvent]

Long time reader 1st time poster !!

Im looking at buying a 70s-80s twinshock trials I did ride a montesa 248 and 200 25 years + ago and then a long lay off

I have had a couple of bikes over the last couple of years i have tried my hand at pre 65 with a bsa B40 but I struggled with it had lots of issues with the bsa and lost confidence in using it I struggled to find grip and I couldn't start it !!!!!

I'm looking to re start riding trials I know I'm never going to be competitive but I want to enjoy myself

I don't want a modern mono I would prefer to ride a modern classic I ride a twinshock air cooled road bike

So here's my question I have about

[b40rt]

There are very few "bad" twin shocks, badly prepared / looked after is a different issue.

Go with the (expensive) herd and get a Honda / Fantic - but parts are readily available.

Some Montesa's are a bit delicate. Bultaco are well catered for.

At £1500 you should be able to get something reasonable.

Plenty of clubs in your part of the world.

[totalshell]

if its grip your after, and dont feel good enough to win trophies then a tlr is the natural choice.. grips and grips again, power is nice and soft so breaking grip is less easily done than say on a fantic.. fantic 200 though are the bargain of twinshock trials.. you can get two for your honda money..

[ikb]

Cota 200 is a reasonably priced twin shock, easy to start and grip well. But you need a good one!!!

[jon v8]

And I have to add that a Ty250 will grip better than most,will also steer well too.Extremely reliable and easy for parts.A very soft motor that will help rather than hinder most riders.

[cleanorbust]

Probably best to steer clear of a Honda TLM (their two stroke twinshocker), from what I remember they were a bit of a challenge, finding a lack of grip where no lack existed. Of course, Peter Gaunt does OK on his 65cc version but then he would wouldn't he. Funny you don't see many around...

Edited February 27, 2013 by cleanorbust

[woody]

Probably best to steer clear of a Honda TLM (their two stroke twinshocker), from what I remember they were a bit of a challenge, finding a lack of grip where no lack existed. Of course, Peter Gaunt does OK on his 65cc version but then he would wouldn't he. Funny you don't see many around...

Honda TLM was only available as the tiddler - they didn't do an adult 2 stroke twinshock.

[4 stroke honda]

Hi Adrian

Lots of clubs around you ,Richmond , Darlington, Weardale, Middlesbrough and most will have some twinshocks at there events

I used to live in Darlo before i moved to Oz and rode at most club events all a good bunch of lads

As for what twinshock to get there are a few depending on what you like at the time and all can do the job as its more down to the rider (ty175,ty250,fantic200,fantic240 ,TLR250, TLR200

My fav is the TLR250 which i got for this season and it just feels right as soon as i rode it so its more about how you feel when you try the bike

Also picked up a TLM260 rf mono shock which is in bits right now but ran well when i rode it and should be back togeather in a month and they were suppost to be a well sorted bike so dont know what cleanorbust is on about

So pick a nice clean bike and enjoy

Mike

[longlegscanbeuseful]

Adrian, have a ride up to Rogerley Quarry near Frosterley on Sunday, theres a map on the events page if you're not sure where it is.. There will be a few twinshocks there and the numbers will increase through the year as the weather warms up. Softies like me stick to the modern bikes in the winter.

All the North East clubs do an easy route just right for twinshocks and all friendly helpfull people. You never know, you might even find something for sale.

Cheers, Gary

[2stroke4stroke]

The TLM was so good I'm sure they sold as many as a dozen in Britain - not the most popular of bikes because, if I recall, they just didn't match the Yamaha and were probably much more expensive. An allegedly Works one languished unsold in my local Honda dealer for months, if not years, back in the day. I rather suspected it had been the rounds of the Honda dealers as they must have been getting desperate to get rid sending it to a dealer that had absolutely no comp dealings whatsoever. I certainly wouldn't like to try and get parts for one.

Edited February 28, 2013 by 2stroke4stroke

[woody]

The 'proper' TLM260 with the double disks was an excellent bike, however, not a twinshock, so irrelevant. Honda never made a full size twinshock 2-stroke, only the tiddler.

If the budget is £1500 max, then Hondas are off the menu full stop. A TLR250 is £3k minimum plus more to spend if it is in standard trim. Even the 200 is now making over £2k on average.

If results / winning is not the objective, merely to have have fun, then then there are quite a few options.

As you've had Montesas before, you may gravitate towards them again out of nostalgia and they have produced some very good twinshocks. The problem is parts as they can be hard to find if you need replacements - either engine or cycle parts. Not impossible, but harder than some other makes. The white tank 200 is a great bike, as is the 242 and the last of the 349 range (different frame from the white 349) Monts generally grip very well. Most will easily fall within budget

Best all round twinshock was the Fantic 200, a great bike for novices or average riders whilst still plenty good enough for experts to win on. Generally available in good condition within your budget. The 240 can be a bit snappier and not always have the same level of grip as the 200 in less experienced hands.

Bultacos are probably the best served for spares with just about everything available. Best model to go for would be a late model 250 either model 198 (last red one) or 198a (all blue one) They are an acquired taste as people like or loathe them. Not as competitive as a 200 Fantic but as that isn't the objective, it doesn't matter. They feel long but turn very well and are stable up rock streams. Decent shocks offer a marked benefit to the feel of the bike as they can feel wooden at the rear. Again, they grip well. A better option than the 325 model which will pull you about with the extra power.

Ossa MAR is a forgiving bike, the earlier ones felt more stable, as the later bikes from '76 felt a bit tall. Spares situation is generally not too bad now, not as good as Bultaco but better than Montesa. They can be a bit flat in power delivery but can be perked up if required. The Gripper models feel very high and again, are a bike people love or hate. They perform very well if set up properly and Steve Bisby has a really good example, but probably for a beginner / novice, they'd be a difficult bike to ride - and they are a bitch to work on.

Armstrongs are very good bikes, 250 or 310/320. Handle well, grip well, the 250 has plenty of power which is very useable, the 310/320 are very strong motors, not sharp but loads of pull. At the moment, good examples are within your budget as they don't seem too popular, probably because of the spares availability here. Engine spares can be had from Italy but smash the tank, airbox, exhaust and you could be in trouble finding a replacement. They are a bigger bitch to work on than the Gripper. Later bikes had Rotax engines but the Hiro motors are nicer in the Armstrongs.

SWM are good bikes and again available within budget. Strong motors, either 240 or 280 Rotax. The clutches can take some setting up and they aren't blessed with the best action, but the motors can be made to run very smoothly so most sections can be ridden without the need for messing with the clutch. Handle well, steer well, decent suspension with Betor or Marzocchi forks. Best example would be a late model with either black frame or blue frame. The Jumbo framed 240 is a nice bike but don't be tempted for a full 350 Jumbo as it will pull your arms out. Very powerfull.

Then there are others such as Beamish Suzuki, KT Kawasaki, Aprilia Hiro, Garelli Hiro, but spare will be more difficult to find for these than those above.

Finally there is the TY175 Yamaha which you should easily get for within your budget. Light, easy to ride, not overly powerful... but surprisingly capable. Most spares easily attainable - easily cope with a classic trial or easy / beginner route at modern trials. Just about still in budget. The 250 isn't a bad bike, handle well but starting to creep in price now and some engine parts can be hard to source, which isn't a problem with the 175. Engines can be flatter in response compared to the other bikes mentioned but removing the heavy flywheel weight will address that.

In truth, all of the above will serve the purpose you need, all will provide perfectly adequate levels of grip with decent condition tyres and good shocks. All have more than enough power. They all behave and handle differently and respond differently to rider input, but all will do the job you need them too.

[andy m]

I think Woodys answer should be used as a "sticky" I think they call it for when new enquiries re twinshocks come about.

[4 stroke honda]

As Woody says

The 'proper' TLM260 with the double disks was an excellent bike, however, not a twinshock, so irrelevant. Honda never made a full size twinshock 2-stroke, only the tiddler.

Thats what i said Mono shock and they were only made for the Japan market so not many ended abroad and mine is a import from Japan 15 years ago and has been in storage for 13 years but its a good bike to look at and ride

Woody has made a good case for must twinshockers so you can pick which will be your bike as we are all individuals and the choice is down to each of us but if you look for a good clean bike that has been looked after you will not go far wrong as all twinshockers will cost money if they have not been looked after as parts are not cheap and soon add up

3k for a standard TLR250 high prices in the UK

[adrianvent]

Thanks guys there's some fantastic answers there for my question I know a lot Is personal choice and nostalgia but its great to get other people's views / thoughts and idea of spares availability for the bikes.

thats a very comprihensive answer Woody thank you.

I've had a couple of leads for bikes that are for sale so I should find a bike shortly fingers crossed

Thanks again Adrian

Edited March 1, 2013 by adrianvent

[adrianvent]

Well I've blown the budget and spent a bit more than I planned and gone for a fantic 240 in fantastic condition just have to get out on it now

Thanks for you advice