Where Are Pre-65 Trials Going?

[cub200]

The title of this thread "Where are Pre-65 trials going" gives a clue to what should or should not be eligible for this great sport of ours.

Woody's last post prompted me to respond here about the Bantams, 3 or 4 speed,,,,, can anyone definitively tell me when the 4 speed Bantams came on the market because I can't find anything before 1966,,,,, I stand to be corrected.

If I'm correct then there are a lot of trophies to be handed back !!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to the original question, I'm afraid you guys in the UK have allowed all the trick stuff in and the only way out now is to introduce more classes for them to ride in and also create events for both these bikes and the genuine classics and also, as someone else pointed out, put on suitable sections for the older riders ,,,,any volunteers ?.

I was back in the UK for two years recently and there were some old mates in the BMCA riding classics who were in their mid 70's and still riding extremely well.

I think a lot of the problem is the use of both Pre 65 and Pre 70 events, Pre 70 British allows in a host of bikes which just miss out on Pre 65 but the genuine Pre 65's have to compete against them.

Here in Australia, Pre 65 means Pre 65 (except for any carby can be fitted), I have two Cubs stored in the UK which I was going to ship to Aus but one of them has 4 stud Adventurer forks fitted and they won't be eligible in Aus so I will sell it in UK, pics available if anyone interested, contact me, twinshock2@gmail.com

Can someone respond on the 4 speed Bantam box query

Cheers

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's,

Hi Roger,

Four speed Bantams ,after 1965, I have been told 66-67 the works may have had them before, we were playing with a four speed set for a racing Bantam in 1965 but the experiment did'nt last too long.

I am glad that Deryk Wylde has had his say and you know what I think, and support him with his views.

But I think that the title Pre 65 should have been binned long ago,

Yes you can still build a bike for under a £1000, or buy one , Brian has a Bantam in the IOM and did most of the first day of the Manx Classic on it. But one,I had fitted a £200 ignition on to the bike a couple of days before the event. which then put it over the 1K, and the weakness of the forks fitted and poorly positioned footrests caused injury, which ended the day. But still at £1200, and a few tweaks the little bike is now competitive, So I thought I would build a bit better Bantam for him.to ride.

Well this is already over this amount half of it going on wheels and tyres.

Yes you can run events for specific class of bike and there are guys out there willing to ride in that class. as you all know.

But to put on one of these events and to get the entries you want, costs a lot of money, and without sponsorship they then become a one-off. shame though

Regards Charlie. bsaotter.com

[jon v8]

Whilst I respect Derek's views and all he has done in the past,there is little point in trying to enforce a standard set of rules country wide.The only reason I took on the job of running Bath Classic trials was because nobody else would do it.I couldnt bear to see all the hard work that had been put in just be lost.So I took the job on,but ONLY because it is a simple task with little in the way of rules and regs to deal with.On the day of the trial the last thing I want to be dealing with is petty squables over bike eligibilty - its enough to do to find 10 observers,willing or otherwise.Riders can come along with whatever old banger or 2013 HT5 they want and have a good ride round in beautiful countryside with like minded mates.What can be wrong with that ? If 60-90 odd people turn up each time and enjoy themselves I'm happy too.

If I started putting rules in place such as 3speed Bantams only and mag ignition on Pre unit bikes I can tell you what would happen - nobody would come back.They would ignore Bath Classic and go elsewhere.

And as far as the Scottish 2 day is concerned,they can and do what they like,its a long drive from here and I'd have to go past many excellent clubs and venues,Aqueduct Classics and Yorkshire Classics are just two that spring to mind where you can have a good day out amongst a large entry of old kit.

Besides,it has to be said that the same riders would still win,the likes of Len Hutty would still be at the top riding a rigid Panther !

As far as I'm concerned this topic has been done and each opinion just needs to acknowledge and respect others.What we should ALL be concentrating our minds on and debating is the loss of land we are suffering.I cant believe the AMCA and ACU arent more vocal about it.We have already lost one venue because the farm has been put into stewardship with DEFRA,this controls very strictly what the farmer can and cant do with the land.The main thing to us is that all motorsport is completely banned... The farm next to my cottage has just signed up again,which is a great shame as it could carry a great event with decent parking etc.Luckily the farmer next door to them hates Defra and as a result we can run a trial there.But the options are becoming less as the government close in controling the countryside with their large cheque book.

This is what we should be debating,not about the bikes,as Roger has said, Australia has very strict Pre 65 bike rules... And nobody bothers to take part anymore.

[nigel dabster]

Well said, its land that matters, but its an opportunity to cheat for others.

[tltel]

slightly off topic but I have just been looking at the photos for Sidcup and district motor cycle clubs Jack Thompson trial held last week. There were close to 100 entries, its a British bike only event and I don't know the regs for entry but what a great cross section of bikes and riders. Photos are definitely worth a look.

I was going to watch (and listen) but had to work so could'nt make it.

TLTEL

[andy m]

Ha ha if only 3 speed Bantams were "allowed" country wide, by now we would not see any Bantams, if anyone knows about 3 spd Bantam gear boxes. Which in itself would wipe out some on going cottage industries as well as the lack of a model the suppliers could cater for whether it be the parts for an engine rebuild or a tyre. I think the phrase ( to keep the sport moving forward) is "in the spirit". As I said bums on seats, without taking the **ss.

I rode the Bantam only trial which Jim Pickering organised earlier in the year, I think it was to celebrate the fact he had supplied 50 frames, that is probably all 4 speed bikes , many of which ride pre 65 wherever they are in the UK, take them out of the equation, and I doubt 10% would be riding std Bantams, let alone the other Bantam frames being supplied, of which 2 are used in Scotland which we all know is the bench mark is it not ??

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy,s.

Jon no one is knocking you, or shouldn't be. And I know what you mean about DEFRA, and I feel that the ACU and perhaps the AMCA don't want to rock the boat with this government department. We are still able to find land available to us , look at the BMCA, but has Andy M says, what we need to do is put more bums on seats, to take advantage of what we still have. And to my mind that means a cheaper way to own and ride a bike built in the classic style. There are ways to try and achieve this if people are a bit open minded.

Not all folks think that bunny hopping a modern bike is fun? Except the stage struck youth, and abbsalutly talented athletic guys. So what we want to have a ride around with our mates on a Sunday morning is a cheaper alternative. And the Classic theam seems to fit this bill.

Cheapo twinshocks seemed to be a good idea a few years back but then these started to go the way of the revised Britshocks.

Bantams seemed to fit the bill, but has I have said you need at least £1500 for one of these,not that bad you say, OK then you look at the top Bantam bikes ,and start breaking the budget to try and build your bike upto that standard.

There is another thought and one I have been following this year? It may be marginally cheaper? I don't know yet!!!

If you have followed the exploites of one Mr Jon Bliss this year, you will know what I am on about.

We will see next year if with more of these machines about whether they are excepted has an alternative to a Classic trials bike?? I hope so that is all I can say, and better than modding a mono shock into a Twinshock I think.

Sorry for spelling etc but this is my I pad and they think they can take over the litary future . See what I mean?

Regards Charlie.

[old trials fanatic]

You've been talking to "he who must not be named" again haven't you Charlie

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's

Hi OTF,

I have not spoken to HWMNBN actualy.

Should I have then???? I do have my own ideas you know, and try to put most of them into action, has you should know.

If any one can come up with an idea to keep Brit Trials Bikes rolling that is good to me.

We are just not going to see so many Brit Bikes Original or tweaked out there are we? for one reason !!! expense. Old Classic Brit bikes are now worth a fortune and Tweaked ones Cost a fortune.

Bantams are getting the same way. so we need an alternative, don't we???

You know how to wind me up don,t you Paul!!!!!

Anyway ,Yes "Bessie" is OK and is out for a spin on Boxing Day if we are not snowed under.

Happies to you to.

Regards Charlie. www.bsaotter.com

[totalshell]

no problem getting bums on seats at yorks classic.. the number of events will be reduced nxt year slightly though to give the grafters the odd weekend off.. i think they ll only be 22 p65 trials from them nxt year..

[old trials fanatic]

no problem getting bums on seats at yorks classic.. the number of events will be reduced nxt year slightly though to give the grafters the odd weekend off.. i think they ll only be 22 p65 trials from them nxt year..

Yorks Classic get two essential things right. 1. They have some of the best trials country to hold their events in. And 2. They always lay out sections to cater for the majority of their riders so they have a grand day out. Long may they continue.

[b40rt]

Yorks Classic get two essential things right. 1. They have some of the best trials country to hold their events in. And 2. They always lay out sections to cater for the majority of their riders so they have a grand day out. Long may they continue.

And they have lots of classes which mean your competing against similar machines.

[davetom]

Were there more events/ competitors before, say 10 or 20 yrs ago? I've only been involved 3 or 4 yrs so don't know if it's declining or not.. Hard to judge last 5 yrs though as I'm sure the recession has affected a lot of Motorsport

[laird387]

Hi,

Following up on 'Old Trials Fanatic' comments, Yorks Classic do have a passionate following because, having learned the hard way the club were NEVER afraid to say, 'You're welcome to ride for the fun - but that bike is NOT pre-65, so won't be in the results.

How did they get scrutineers? Remember the late, and sadly missed, Howard Midgley with his Wehrmacht helmet with Gestapo markings and scrutineer writ large upon it - a light humorous touch, but a very pointed 'Sorry, lad' if the bike had been 'modified'. And he meant the 'sorry' and he very definitely meant the 'no' !!!

As 'Punch' was often heard to screech, 'That's the way to do it!'

[sparks2]

You must be joking