nigel dabster Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 #999 Thank you for your insight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) "Being run over by any bike is not good however some are less bad than others. The low heavy 4 strokes of the 50s, 60s and early 70s used to inflict some pretty horrific injuries an anyone they ran over. The lighter 2 stokes of the 80s and 90s with bulbous expansion chambers often ran over fallen riders without inflicting injury. Your mates RMZ may have a smooth sump shield but without the expansion chamber to hold the rider down his body or part thereof is more likely to hit higher up at the front of the engine where it is narrow and the impact force will be concentrated on a small area. The front engine / frame area on most recent MX bikes is pretty aggressively shaped. All other things being equal, being hit by a heavier bike is going to be worse than a light bike. However when it comes to trials the greater capability of a lighter trials bike means more hazardous obstacles are needed to take marks and hence when the rider fails the subsequent fall is likely to more severe. #10. Whenever I have set out a trial or had a hand in it riders are generally very complementary of the sections. I do appreciate that CoCs have a difficult job these days because of the range of ability, 3 route sections being the norm rather than the single route that sections used too be. The example of the sheep trod I quoted is just one of the instances of this I have seen. I have seen similar situations occur at trials ranging from nationals right down to easy club trials. When I started trials nearly all sections were in gullies, so even if you failed a big step you just jumped off the back or toppled to one side. A far higher % of the sections in some trials today are inclined to "perch" riders on top of obstacles with a big fall off the side if things go wrong. I have no qualms about riding a 4 ft step in a gulley, but if the section required me to go over slippery a 4 ft boulder with nowhere to foot I would not attempt it. Quite a few riders I know including trial winners take the same view." Well said sir. Edited May 2, 2015 by cleanorbust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 If the rest of the riders can't do it they probably shouldn't be riding in the World Championship. As far as I was aware, world championships were meant to find the best in the world. Maybe the FIM should just put out some cones in a car park so that everyone can ride the sections and then give them all trophies at the end. Sure the FIM will take your words of wisdom on board, looking forward to next year's rounds with 3 / 5 riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 It'd be more interesting than watching the top riders roll around in the mud so that 25th place can feel good about themselves by 'competing'. Hope you don't have children ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 S.e.lucas your view neatly encapsulates exactly where trials has gone wrong. You don't need a 2m step to take marks off even the very best. However you will prevent others competing due to risk of injury or damage to expensive machinery. Its pointless thinking this approach is a way forward we have had the spectacular, lets find the best riders in the world approach for more than 20 years. We now have factories going bust, dwindling sales and fewer competitors. Same issues at local trials. Its not the way forward 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 It'd be more interesting than watching the top riders roll around in the mud so that 25th place can feel good about themselves by and#39;competing'. What mud ? - they dont do mud anymore .Its so so so yesterday 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 FIM is dependent to national / local clubs to organize the World Cup events. And as long as there are no clubs, who have the appropriate site and the necessary assistants, there will be no trials with long hill climbs, muddy banks and river crossings. So I'm afraid that if you want a world cup that suits your needs, you'll have to organize it yourself. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of more variation in the events, and sometimes get bored with all that rear wheel hopping too, but I'm also glad we still have world cups, it's not that evident in these times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I largely agree with the original post. 15 riders at a world championship is not good, i dont think anyone can dispute that!! Less riders is bad, for basically everything, and less riders usually makes it easier for one person to dominate. You just have to look at F1. The level has become too dangerous, not too difficult, too dangerous, and when a world round comes to your country and no people are capable of riding it, thats not good!! In the 70s and 80s you could have had close to 100 people competing the same line with the winner on a reasonable 50 and the lower down riders dropping lots of marks but not getting killed. I think the level has to come down, you can still make a trial difficult without 30ft drops everywhere, and i think the only realistic way is through tyres. Back to 4 ply i say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Maybe make it compulsory that to compete for the top spots , you have to ride the SSDT too , and your placing there gets added in ... (and by yourself , like everyone else , no factory mechanics etc...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 It doesn't have to be six days i.m.o., one day is enough. But why hasn't any one in Scotland, or the U.K. for that matter, taken the initiative? Why I ask you? Or is this also a consequence of the so called conspiracy between Honda and the FIM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 They did hold a world round in fort william a few years back, but for some reason they now prefer to hold the world round at terrible place full of man made sections. Worst world round in the championship in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 But for any world round to be a success WE have to support it. I dont think enough people supported fort william, organisers can't afford to lose money. Penrith is more central and at least they are putting it on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I just meant that it may help trials get back to it's roots ... , Back in the day , a world champion capable rider wouldn't think of NOT riding the SSDT! It is how motorcycle competition started . 1 man & 1 machine vs. the terrain and conditions with what you can carry . Enduro's , MX etc. all evolved out of trials and the public doesn't know about it . Why ? 'cause it's HARD ! You have to be fairly smart to succeed . Trials has always been the thinking man's sport because we challenge ourselves first . It's not about knuckle dragging , twist the throttle , point and hang on , and beat the other guy into the first turn at all cost . It's all about the skill & control of the machine and rider as a unit . Most folks that see trials for the first time say" wow cool , that looks easy " . Then they try it ... And maybe about 1% of people that try it these days stick with it seriously . Because for most there is no instant self gratification . The few that challenge themselves and stick with it , that battle thru the frustration of learning trials physics , get to enjoy the heartwarming self satisfaction of cleaning a section ! And knowing how and why they did ! Is there any other motorsport where you can stand and discuss a line ,(mossy spot , rock , ledge , log , camber , turn ) with your direct competition ? And then give each other pointers only to see who traverses that few yards of earth the best ? And when you get beat , you know it's because they just plain and simple did it better ... Then you cross paths a few sections later , repeat , and you come out clean ... and they say good ride ! with a smile like you did @ the previous section ! We ride trials for ourselves , no one else . OK ... Rant over ! But thats why I love trials Glenn 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 So it's a good thing that Belgium should again be on the calendar for 2016 there is always a chance of rain here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 I just meant that it may help trials get back to it's roots ... , Back in the day , a world champion capable rider wouldn't think of NOT riding the SSDT! It is how motorcycle competition started . 1 man and 1 machine vs. the terrain and conditions with what you can carry . Enduro's , MX etc. all evolved out of trials and the public doesn't know about it . Why ? 'cause it's HARD ! You have to be fairly smart to succeed . Trials has always been the thinking man's sport because we challenge ourselves first . It's not about knuckle dragging , twist the throttle , point and hang on , and beat the other guy into the first turn at all cost . It's all about the skill and control of the machine and rider as a unit . Most folks that see trials for the first time say" wow cool , that looks easy " . Then they try it ... And maybe about 1% of people that try it these days stick with it seriously . Because for most there is no instant self gratification . The few that challenge themselves and stick with it , that battle thru the frustration of learning trials physics , get to enjoy the heartwarming self satisfaction of cleaning a section ! And knowing how and why they did ! Is there any other motorsport where you can stand and discuss a line ,(mossy spot , rock , ledge , log , camber , turn ) with your direct competition ? And then give each other pointers only to see who traverses that few yards of earth the best ? And when you get beat , you know it's because they just plain and simple did it better ... Then you cross paths a few sections later , repeat , and you come out clean ... and they say good ride ! with a smile like you did @ the previous section ! We ride trials for ourselves , no one else . OK ... Rant over ! But thats why I love trials Glenn Great post Glenn That has hit the spot for sure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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