stuessenhigh Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Be down in Rushden next weekend mate...but will try my best to give you a hand soon. Yep..will make sure I've got the right bike by September next year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhondaman Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Sounds good taxi man, put me & bob down for it. On the eligibility side what about tubeless rims/tires? don't know of many t/s with those fitted when they left the factory?. See you in Wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitley Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Tubeless tyres realy arent going to make much difference in the way the section is laid as much it would be for disc breaks. Your on the list dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Dont think there is any difference in a michelin grip either tubed or not, same with IRC. Big advantage is the ease of fitting and no pesky security bolts. I've got tubed on my Bulto. Want to go tubeless though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhondaman Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Don't know about ease of fitting, never had anything that modern. What i get frustrated with is the tube/tire moving and pulling the valve into the rim. Have even got self tappers in the rim and it still moves! (sorry if i am getting away from the original topic!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Thats another advantage of tubless, but to cure your problem make sure you have really good sized tyre loks and if it still moves let it down, slacken right off the security bolts, push off rim and then it should slide round ok reinflate off you go. Back in the 80's we used a suzuki road lock that was really tight now I sharpen up the ones I have with a file, seems to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Quick way to pull the tyre and tube into line without removing the wheel is to deflate and loosen security bolts right off as Dabster says, then with the bike on a stand and in 1st gear pull the tyre/wheel sharply in the direction it needs to go by holding just the tyre. When the slack in the chain is taken up and the wheel stops abruptly against the engine compression, the tyre should slide round on the rim. Only takes a couple of pulls (oooer missus) and the tube/valve will be back in line. Can only speak for myself obviously but I see nothing wrong with tubeless rims/tyres fitted to older bikes. Some tubed rims will actually take a tubeless tyre (with tube and security bolts of course) without it dropping off the rim. The akronts as used on Ossa/Bult etc. seem to. I've had tubeless IRC on the Ossa for years and they've never slipped off the rim. Majesty rim won't hold one though, it always drops off on both sides for about 8 - 10 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 And must have been a twinshock as original manufacture? Otherwise they'll be turning up on those mono Yams with twinshocks fitted. Don't think anything else is necessary apart from that and no discs. Personally I cant see what the fuss is over discs being fitted or not - its rider skill that counts, have a look at. http://www.trialscentral.com/cms/showartic...?articleID=1706 Notice the guy with the lowest score overall on the B route (Alan Crayk), he was riding an old twinshock Montesa, drum braked of course, note that the majority of the bikes in the trial were the latest super dooper gas gas, beta, Montesa etc , all with discs front and back. Reading what is posted in this thread he couldnt have done well because he did not have the advantage of disc brakes. Guys I will be delighted if you try to ban discs South of the Border, then I will be able to afford a disc front end for my TLR on Ebay since there will be no more over inflated prices. If someone wants to sell me an obsolete disc front end at a bargain price they no longer can legally use please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Personally I cant see what the fuss is over discs being fitted or not - its rider skill that counts, have a look at. Sorry but you're way off beam there. In certain conditions disc brakes will offer a significant advantage when you have riders of similar ability. The one who has discs has immediate and predictable stopping power with a gentle squeeze of the levers. Those with soggy wet drums have no idea how their brakes are going to react from one section to another, maybe they'll grab, maybe they'll just run on. If the section is such that you gain an advantage from say a nice slow controlled decent down a steep slippy bank instead of being barely in control with drums that won't hold, or able to fiddle on clutch and brakes through some nadgery where the bike would roll on a bit on soggy drums, what has rider skill got to do with that? Each of those scenarios can cause a loss of marks to bring drum braked bikes back under control. With discs all the chance and uncertainty of how the brakes will react is removed as modern discs are entirely predictable in their action. Big advantage. Why do you think they are fitting them? To be fair however, most agree that they shouldn't be allowed and won't fit them. It is only one or two - at the moment. Now I'm not criticising or rubbishing the example you have given, but it is a B route and I'm assuming relatively gentle sections where braking power wasn't a necessity, so it proves nothing. The ACU Classic sections are hard but sensible and offer a good challenge to competent riders on twinshocks and pre65. There are some ex-centre champions riding and some can still score highly in the Novogar series on their modern bikes. If discs are allowed in this series they will offer an advantage, no question, especially in the Phil King round.... Yhose who have ridden it will know what I mean..!! Twinshocks were ridden without brakes when they were current and they don't need them now as the inevitable result will be trials that evolve into what we have now in modern trials, tight up your own backside sections that bore you stupid, the very thing that those of us who ride the ACU Classic are trying to get away from. Fitting discs is just not in the spirit of why we ride the twinshock championship in my opnion, if we are to allow that we may as well just stick to modern trials. Outside of that championship people can do what they like, it's up to individual clubs, but within, it is essential that the regs ensure a level playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitley Posted November 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Well said that man woody! If you want to use discs in your club trials carry on , but they are not eligable in our trial!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Twinshocks were ridden without brakes when they were current and they don't need them now <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoops - forgot to add the word disc in front of brakes there - although the original sentence still applies in part to some old bikes, like my Ossa for one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 (edited) Sorry but you're way off beam there. In certain conditions disc brakes will offer a significant advantage when you have riders of similar ability. The one who has discs has immediate and predictable stopping power with a gentle squeeze of the levers. Those with soggy wet drums have no idea how their brakes are going to react from one section to another, maybe they'll grab, maybe they'll just run on. If the section is such that you gain an advantage from say a nice slow controlled decent down a steep slippy bank instead of being barely in control with drums that won't hold, or able to fiddle on clutch and brakes through some nadgery where the bike would roll on a bit on soggy drums, what has rider skill got to do with that? Each of those scenarios can cause a loss of marks to bring drum braked bikes back under control. With discs all the chance and uncertainty of how the brakes will react is removed as modern discs are entirely predictable in their action. Big advantage. Why do you think they are fitting them? To be fair however, most agree that they shouldn't be allowed and won't fit them. It is only one or two - at the moment. I only have trials bikes with drum brakes and in practice have only competed on drum braked bikes so I am well aware of their potential failings. I try to ensure my brakes are 'up to the job' as much as possible and know very well how they will react when applied. I for one would not be happy riding a bike where I could not predict the performance of the brakes, be it drums or discs. I componsate for the shortcomings of my brakes in my riding, entering steep downhill sections only after I have 'dried out' my brakes. To a rider of a modern disc braked bike drums can be frightening but if you are used to the bike it should be no real problem - even to a mediocre rider like me - yes you may well drop a couple more marks but ce la vie. What you have got to realise is that in Scotland there are only 4 or 5 trials a year primarily aimed at twinshock or p65, the remainder of the year a reasonable number of riders do compete on P65 and TS bikes in 'normal trials'. Its because of this I would like a disc braked front end, in my case not particularly for better brakes but because of the chance of better suspension. I hope that your crusade against disc braked twinshocks is driven back at the border! Each to their own. Edited November 2, 2005 by g4321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikespace Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 I don't like to join in with the majority argument and pound the underdog, but I agree with Woody. If you're going to allow disc brakes, then why not just allow monoshocks, after all the rider is the bit that counts? I'm sure that Steve Saunders on an original twinshock would still pound most of our club riders on modern machines. That doesn't make much sense of your argument. I don't mean that to sound bitchy, so please don't take offense, but the pre-65 has turned in to a joke and the twin-shock could go the same way without some clear boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Yeah i agree with woody. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 What you have got to realise is that in Scotland there are only 4 or 5 trials a year primarily aimed at twinshock or p65, the remainder of the year a reasonable number of riders do compete on P65 and TS bikes in 'normal trials'. Its because of this I would like a disc braked front end, in my case not particularly for better brakes but because of the chance of better suspension. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't disagree with you on this point, if someone wants to ride a twinshock in a modern club or centre trial there is no reason not to have better brakes fitted as it isn't giving you a 'cheat' advantage over modern bikes. As we've said all along, it is up to individual clubs what they allow in that respect, or even in their own twinshock club championships. If they allow discs then that's fine, it's their decision. We're only concerned about what happens in the ACU Classic championship and one-off events staged purely for twinshocks and Pre65 such as the one being discussed in this forum. The club will make it clear what they expect. Obviously this should have no bearing whatsoever on what happens in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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