November 5, 20178 yr I'm thinking that even if a 4rt did weigh about 65 kilos it would still feel much heavier than a similar 2 stroke. Nothing personal but didn't they try to ruin the the European trials industry by trying to get us all on 4 strokes a few years ago. Anyway I'll stick to the Ossa which I'll probably have to put in the wheelie bin shortly but it least it doesn't feel like I'm taking my gran on a date every time I go to a trial.
November 5, 20178 yr A Montesa may not be the top model but I have all ways felt they are like the hot next door neighbor. Great to look at, way more available, and much less likely to leave me stranded. My 2 cents.
November 5, 20178 yr Im pretty sure last time i checked ive ridden my lightweight 2 stroke all day every day. Even when she boiled up, my fault, it got me to the end of that day and then another. Most makes are reliable now and weight doesnt equal reliability even if @dadof2 @dadof 2 thinks it does.....
November 5, 20178 yr I wouldn't want to push any bike and would rather be able to ride it. I owned a Beta 300 4T and switched to a 2 stroke because of reading so many negative comments about them from pro 2 stroke people. I miss my 300 4T, easy to start, wonderful motor, climbed hill so much better than my 2 stroke. Different brands and motors just fit people differently; "one mans trash is another mans treasure". I like my 2 stroke but I will be back on a 4 stroke. Motocross people are trying to bring back the 2 stroke; the cool old days, the sound, the power but all will admit if you want faster laps you ride a 4 stroke.
November 21, 20205 yr On 11/4/2017 at 11:33 PM, dadof2 said: As someone stated on this subject previously "I would rather ride a heavy bike than push a light one" Watching trials its easily seen that most marks are due to loss of grip or balance, not excess weight. Other than to a very few riders I would think that a few KGs difference in bike weights does not matter. Having said that if a bike is perceived as being too heavy / old fashioned it will reduce sales. Montesa / Honda have a problem. To achieve success at WTC a 4T almost certainly has to be OHC, whereas for all but the top few a side valve or pushrod engine would be lighter, lower C of G and have adequate power. If Honda want a light 4T engine it is possible but it will have to be substantially different from the present engine layout. When Gasgas were developing their side-valve 4T, I thought that was such a good example of lateral thinking. We're so locked into thinking that OHC is the only way, but side-valve would (I think) be perfect for a trials engine.
November 22, 20205 yr 9 hours ago, trapezeartist said: When Gasgas were developing their side-valve 4T, I thought that was such a good example of lateral thinking. We're so locked into thinking that OHC is the only way, but side-valve would (I think) be perfect for a trials engine. For the clubman rider I think the side-valve would work very well, however the trouble is that it would never perform well enough at the high RPM's for the pro riders, as such I don't see them ever making them... how do you promote a bike that no top rider rides and sell enough of them in such a small market to be worth the $? At least that is what I see. Edited November 22, 20205 yr by jonnyc21
November 22, 20205 yr 19 hours ago, jonnyc21 said: For the clubman rider I think the side-valve would work very well, however the trouble is that it would never perform well enough at the high RPM's for the pro riders, as such I don't see them ever making them... how do you promote a bike that no top rider rides and sell enough of them in such a small market to be worth the $? At least that is what I see. I understand your point, and partially agree. Of course no top rider rides a 200 or 250 2T either, although they are only variations on the theme and a 4T is a totally different animal. No doubt ROI was the reason Gasgas never got their 4T to production. It would have been a unique trials engine whereas all the other 4Ts (Montesa, Beta, Sherco or Scorpa?) are parts bin specials.
November 23, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, trapezeartist said: I understand your point, and partially agree. Of course no top rider rides a 200 or 250 2T either, although they are only variations on the theme and a 4T is a totally different animal. No doubt ROI was the reason Gasgas never got their 4T to production. It would have been a unique trials engine whereas all the other 4Ts (Montesa, Beta, Sherco or Scorpa?) are parts bin specials. For GasGas and Sherco, their 4 stroke development was driven by pressure from the FIM who were planning to ban 2 strokes. GasGas and Sherco development was dropped when the 2 stroke ban was dropped.
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