malibudon

Steve, I'm not sure I'm following your contradictory statements. You claim that a 10-year-old bike is as good as new for most of us. But, your Sherco 4T makes you a better rider. I can't say my '07 4RT makes me a better rider than my professionally maintained '98 315R, but I can tell you that I perform better in sections and practice on the 4RT. Given that, it seems the new technology trumps the old, as I'm the same guy I was a few months ago (only older). However, the 4RT does give me confidence to try more difficult obstacles. Much of that confidence comes from the reliability of power delivery that EFI offers, compared to a 4T with a carb (been there, coughed that). Does confidence = skill? There's an interesting discussion right there.

Yikes! Toss that helmet now! Helmets are actually single-use items. If they've taken a hard hit, they are done. You can't see the damage that has been done, but that doesn't mean it's not there and you're riding around with a false sense of security. And, yes, the styrofoam gets old and loses its protective value. Here's a site on helmets with good info. It's for bicycles, but the information translates directly to us: http://www.helmets.org/replace.htm Here's some good info from Snell: http://www.smf.org/faqs.html And from HJC: http://www.hjchelmets.com/helmet_usage.htm Everyone agrees...your helmet is toast. Replace it before your next ride.

I think that Copemech makes a very good point here. The majority of trials riders are do-it-yourselfers when it comes to maintenance and repair. I am decently mechanically inclined and if I have access to proper spares on the day of the event I can repair just about anything that may break on event day and continue to ride. The way the bikes are made now are relatively easy to diagnose the problem, if getting into throttle by wire now there are sensors, contact points, and more wires. if you crash in the water and the throttle is submerged what will that do to the throttle by wire? What I am trying to say is that the new technology is more difficult for the majority of riders to understand, the majority of riders are not 17-18 and totally interested in all things electronic. Majority I think are 25-50 and mechanically inclined. Just my opinion, and usually nobody cares anyways For me, I would rather have a reliable bike than one that's easy to repair. Both automobiles and motorcycles are far, far more complex and technologically advanced than they were 35 years ago...they are also incredibly more reliable. You may not be able to cobble together a roadside or trailside repair when something goes wrong, but that occurance is so rare, that I welcome the trade-off. If I submerge my bike in water, I don't expect the throttle-by-wire to be any more/less reliable than my electronic ignition. Personally, I'm not itching to get back to the days of points, condensors, magnetos and fouled plugs than I am to get back to the days of pilot jets, main jets, slides, choke circuits, floats, check valves, vents, compared to gas and go in any conditions.

Hi Ian, and welcome to Southern California! I invite you to join VOTE when you get here, the club that brought you World Champion Bernie Schreiber. You can check out VOTE's MySpace page at http://www.myspace.com/votetrialsclub and you can find out more about the local umbrella organization at http://www.atatrials.com If you can ship the bike over here for free, as part of a container, it's worth doing. Bikes in southern California tend to hold their value because we ride in conditions that are not harsh to trials bikes. If you love mudbogs and rocky, wet streams, you're going to be disappointed here. If ultra grippy rocks and sunny days sound good, let's go riding. You can sell that Belstaff!

Well, a good rider in virtually any motorcycle discipline will beat an average one if the superior rider is on a 20-year-old bike. But, a rider on a new bike will perform far better than he would on a 20-year-old machine. Tires are hugely important, and the move to tubeless radials was gigantic. How did the front tires escape going tubeless. Fantic tried it, but it was abandoned for some reason. Anyone?

While we do typically lag, trials bikes did pave the way for both twin-spar aluminum frames and perimeter chromoly frames. And, of course, EFI. The monoshock was clearly huge, as was the advent of two-strokes in the '60s. Come to think of it, two-strokes really came to trials before motocross. Let's not underestimate disc brakes, however. Without the braking ability that comes with hydraulic discs, we would never have the spectacular tricks we have now. Can you imagine indoor sections without discs? Ultimately, disc brakes made the shift from no-stop to stop make sense.

I liked the USDs on my Beta Zero, but don't miss them on my Cota 315R and 4RT. That's a good catch. From a practical standpoint, you aren't likely to see throttle-by-wire with a carb.

I think more people would map their 4RTs if it were easier. If it could be done by Bluetooth from either a laptop or PDA, that would be awesome! As far an design enhancements, it depends. There are things we know about and want, then there are innovations we don't find out about until they appear. I remember wanting single-shock suspension (I bought replacement shocks for my Sherpa T in six-packs), disc brakes and water-cooling before they were available on trails bikes...the MX guys had all those things before us, and they worked! I wasn't asking for a hydraulic clutch, but I'm glad to have it. Fantic tried a power-valve two-stroke, but that didn't stick. When the four-strokes were coming, I was hoping for EFI and was very glad to get it. The advantages of throttle-by-wire didn't hit me until I rode a bike with that feature. Now I want it on my 4RT, as well as having it easy to modify. Are there any technological advances you'd like to return?

In this case, I think it's a Honda proprietary system. From Honda's website: "The single-cylinder, 250cc water-cooled engine comes equipped with electronic fuel injection (Honda Programmed Fuel Injection System, or PGM-FI)

Honda is selling its in-house EFI to Gas Gas? I doubt that, but I suppose anything is possible.

Steve, you're absolutely correct. If you need the 320 power and ride expert, then going with the Montesa doesn't make any sense. For me, in the Intermediate class, the Honda 250 motor makes more than enough power everywhere in the powerband, and the 320's power is more liability than benefit.

The '05 Sherco 320 I rode in an event was prepped by Sherco. It was hard to kick and reluctant to start. Sometimes, it was extremely reluctant to start, which wore me out. It had great power...more than I need...but it wasn't as smooth as the 4RT. The '05 4RT was extremely easy to start, but I didn't like the clutch. I stuck with my 315R for a couple more years. The '07 Sherco 320 I rode was prepped by a dealer. Kicking it was easy. It started right up. Yeah!!! I rode it for just a few minutes after the trial. The one thing that 4Ts have always suffered in comparison to 2Ts is the flame-out when gassing it at low rpm. The 4RT solves that problem. The 320 does not. Again, you can ride around that problem, but I prefer the precision of EFI. I'd like to have a 4RT that weighs what the 320 weighs, but I probably wouldn't trade the reliability. I'd rather ride than wrench, so I'll take the few extra pounds. I wouldn't make the claim that the 4RT is the best performing trials bike made. It may be for some people, but it's certainly not for others. I find 125 2Ts difficult to ride and have a strong preference for 200s--but that's just me. Had Montesa made a 200cc version of either the 315R or 4RT, I'd have bought one. I did have a 1981 Montesa Cota 200...wait, I still do!

Woody, why would you run your TYZ with no tickover? Back in the day, I'd run my Sherpa T without tickover because it would load up at idle. My TYZ would idle all day long and run sharply whenever throttle was applied. And, yes, the 4RT will stall. I don't know that you'd want to program it to never stall under any conditions. In 60 section rides, I stalled it once, and it was complete rider error. It was early on and I was still riding it like my 315R. I blipped the throttle to go over a rock/root combo. When I shut off to coast over, 2T-style, it stalled. But, it stalled due to lack of fuel and a heavy load. That's always going to happen, unless you think it should run with no throttle in fifth gear from a standstill with the brakes applied. EFI may never been adapted 100% for a trials bike, but it's a lot closer to 100% than a carb...so EFI it is for me.

I mentioned a lot of things there. Are you saying you had the opposite experience on all of them? And sometimes it's not simply personal opinion when you're riding two different bikes in two different locales.

I rode sirhc's bike (he's a Sherco/Scorpa dealer, BTW) after Sunday's trial. I had ridden the '05 320 and was not happy at all. It was clearly not ready for prime time. If it had been the first 4T, it would have killed the concept dead. However, on my short ride, I can tell you that the '07 320 is a vastly superior machine. Not only does it kick over more easily, it also fires more readily. That, in and of itself, is a huge improvement. The power delivery still feels lumpy compared to my Cota 4RT, but if you want brute force, the 320 has it. Also, I loved how light it is. The front end is really easy to pick up and move around. The "extreme conditions" that sirhc is referring to when riding the 320 is "riding it like a Cota 4RT". I snuck up to a rock, clutch out, just like I do on my 4RT. Wicked it on, expecting that nice burst. Instead, it died in that 4T-with-carb way, and I was pitched over the bars. Uh, yeah. Thanks, here's your bike back. I saw another guy get on the bike, a much better rider than me. He rides a Cota 315R. He had the same experience I did. He gave it gas at a near standstill, and to a standstill it came. Ultimately, there is no substitute for EFI on a 4T. Sure, you can ride around the problems inherent with a carb, but that's no substitute for doing it right.

My skidplate-protected transmission broke to bits when I cased it on a rock...without a whole lot of force.

I had an '81 version of that bike. It had an awful gearbox...very fragile, and not all that well-working when not broken. Good luck!

How well the world riders do on bikes doesn't really help me pick a bike at all, whether they're riding stock bikes or one-offs. If anything, I'd figure that a bike was optimized for their skills levels would be wholly inappropriate for a mid-level slogger like me.

My wife and I were driving home from a trial this evening and we saw a pink Miata at a gas station. I said to my wife, "Isn't that redundant?"

http://news.scotsman.com/entertainment.cfm?id=1483222007

Admit it, Jimbo, you stole these sentences from the many articles on trials in US magazines in the early 1970s. To me, trials in the US had its chance in the 1970s. There were four Japanese manufacturers, three Spanish and a few from the UK. The public's response was a collective yawn. Yamaha tried again in the 1980s with the TY350. Many were left languishing on showroom floors, even as they made up the majority of local event entries. I love trials, but I also realize that (at least to Americans) it is a strange sport with a strange concept. We ride motorcycles but don't go fast or jump high? You're penalized for putting your foot down? Huh???

They can source the motor from Xispa.

The new '08 Yamaha WR250R dual sport bike and WR250X supermoto bike have fuel injection for their four-valve, liquid-cooled DOHC motors. Could this be a peek at the '09 Scorpa F powerplant? http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products...0/features.aspx http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products...0/features.aspx

Ahhhh, a side valve. I wondered why Honda didn't go that route. It lowers the height of the motor, as well as the CG, and is most likely lighter. Honda has pushrod experience with its ATVs, so I thought they might go that route in 2005 with the 4RT.

To be fair, the motors in the TLR models are much more basic than the 4rt powerplant.