old trials fanatic

Now this has probably been debated on here many times but i seriously would appreciate the advice. Some of the local "Classic" clubs dont seem to cater for or want the pre 65 bikes so as they have an air cooled mono class thought i might try that seeing as i'm an old fat git with very little talent so the modern trials are not my cup of cocoa. Seems to come down to TY250 mono, Beta TR34, Fantic 301/303 i've seen a Montesa 309 and a Gas Gas but spares might be a problem. TY250 is probably the favourite as good parts availability and bullet proof but are they competitive against the Beta or the Fantic? Seem to remember they could hold their own in the early 80's but i packed up in 85 so dont remember the Beta much. So come on guys pro's and cons and hopefully you can help me decide if 1. it's a good idea as there seems less and less places locally i can get a good ride out on my B40 2. assuming it's a good idea which would be the best bet for an old duffer like me?

Dont quite see why you had to respond to Woodie in the way you have Paioli. Seems rather immature. Oh well whatever. If the pre requisite is that Twinshocks by definition must have two shock absorbers and Mono shocks have by definition one shock absorber. What if i replace the single shock on the mono with two smaller shock absorbers mounted side by side? Why bother fitting them from frame to swing arm just continue to use the benefit of the rising rate linkage ? Should clean up just need to have a word and find two smaller shocks and mount them where the original was Much cheeper and better than those uncompetitive old Fantics and Majestys eh

Sorry woodie you are correct i meant when they introduced the stop hop roll back scratch your nose/bum/whatever ask your minder rule. Beta120690 I too would like to see a World round held on "Real" terrain using sections created in the main by Mother Nature like you suggest. The governing factor in all forms of Motor Sport is grip. It's no use having the most powerful motor etc if that can not be transfered to terra firma. If you want to reintroduce the skill into trials and also reduce the chance of injury then limit the ammount of grip from the tyres. Now this can be achieved by altering the compound and construction of the tyre, have you tried an original Dunlop Trials Universal lately??, or you make the terrain more greasy, slippy etc. Indoor Supercross and freestyle has now removed itself so far from Moto Cross that there is no connection. WTC Trials is well along the way. Indoor Trials already is. Maybe that is a good thing? I personally dont give a damn. It's the effect on grass roots level Trials that concerns me and the way the sport is headed at that level. ref your earlier comments Not very spectator friendly or accessable [so? Trials always was a participant sport not a spectator one] Parking problems [as in WRC Rally events have spectator super special stages if you have to] Factory trucks [?????? irrelevant stick them in the car park field with the rest] Not near enough to any motorways (I'd hate trials to become more urbanised as mentioned earlier, part of my love of trials is spending time in the beautiful Yorkshire countryside) [ You mean ther is somewhere in this fair land that isnt within 50 miles of a Motorway?] Bad weather would put off Fair-weather fans [Good fair weather fans are not real fans let them go to the areana Trials. They put nothing back into the sport. Who needs them?] Bad weather might not be Telly friendly with cameras getting knackered [Whats this obsession with TV? WRC Rally rounds get televised. Hand held cameras are now so good the major news companies use them all the time] Spaniards would probably complain about the conditions and get their own way[thats defeatist plus Spaniards have a good track record at the Scottish in all weathers so hardly valid] General lack of money earnt by trial because of reasons mentioned above [ Who is this money going to? the land owner? Doubt it. The promoter? Probably but as it's a World Championship Round the riders have little choice but to attend and the volunteers who do most of the work for the love of the sport see bugger all money anyway so who cares? What about selling the video on line and on DVD. Download as a podcast ? If you can do it with music why not Trials coverage. ] You made some good valid points none of which are insurmountable. Why should a properly presented programme covering a World Round on real terrain not be marketable to a TV audience if that is what you want? The TV companies do a damn good job with WRC events and the Paris Dakar, Tour de France etc etc. Trials doesnt need to become "Gladiators" to survive and grow and it needs TV no more than rock climbing and many other sports does.

No slapdown youre spot on. Why does Trials "need" more TV coverage ????? What will that do for the sport at grass roots level??? Bugger all. No more than the massive TV coverage of football has much to do with the lads down on the park on Sunday. Apart from an increased lack of sportmanship and abuse of officials that is. Why does Trials have to become a mega prime time sport anyway?? Also whats the benefit for us in that?? Will bikes be cheaper ? Doubt it. Will events be more fun? Deffinately not. Look what happened when they introduced the no stop rule. The sport was taken over by trick riding kids who's background was BMX or cycle trials and who had no deep seated interest in the sport of trials and by and large put bugger all back into the sport before clearing off to yet another adrenaline high. Nah Trials needs a period of stability and reflection to lick its wounds. Only once the average club trial can boast 100 rider entries as the norm with all sections staffed by observers and run over proper natural hazards will it need to introduce even more circus entertainment. Theres been too much of that and it's nearly killed the sport at grass roots level which personally is the only level i ACTUALLY care about. Rant over. Waiting for the flamming and slapdowns. You wont see it but i'm right.

A very good idea AA but i dont think thats the problem locally. The problem seems to stem from the entrants getting older and now turning up at trials just themselves on their own in the van. If they are accompanied then like as not the person is also riding. The days when the family came along are long gone. At some of the events i've noticed there didnt seem to be any spectators wandering around to collar for observing at all. The problem is how do you get people to come to what is very much a participant not a spectator sport? At least if there is a youth entry class then there is a chance that they will be accompnaied by someone who may not be riding and will hopefully observe. We are back full circle again to the arguemant that riders in a club at some point will have to give up at least one ride a year to observe in a trial or it will be down to "whoever picks the board up marks it" which is oh so wrong on so many counts. I get the feeling that abuse is more common in other areas than it is in this one. Thank goodness for that. I do like the AMCA MX idea. Definately worth consideration.

What length pre load spacers have you got? You have got pre load spacers in havent you? My B40 is running about 35 mm ones. Every Cub and C15/B40 i know of that uses Betor or Marzocchi internals has some ammount of pre load. You need to aim for about 20mm of "sag" when the suspension has been bounced and returns to it's static position. Good luck

What a bloody good idea. Plus i could rent myself out to those who didnt want to do it themselves for a small fee.

I would. That was one of the suggestions i had printed in our clubs newsletter. Then again if one of the clubs in my area offered me

All interesting points some i had never even considered. I suppose i should but i never realised there was so much work involved in putting on a trial. Must admit i dont know what the perfect answer is just that we need to address the problem now before it's too late. There are a couple of weekends soon where there are evnets on that after Sundays experience i wouldnt really fancy riding as the sections were way too difficult for the likes of an old sod like me but do i stay at home and watch the Moto and F1 GP or drive 70 miles + round trip and observe ? Do i spend the fuel money on the bike as i'm a bit skint or spend it so other riders get an observer. OK i'm being contentious just to make a point but the clubs in question offer a bottle of wine to the observer and the other club a

Thanks for the contributions guys. Personally i detest the idea of riders observing riders it's just wrong on so many counts. As for groups of 5 riders marking each other thats little better. I would much sooner ride five sections then have a break and ride the other five in the afternoon. Make a day of it. Why not? Always used to have a lunch break in the "good old days". I observed at a few trials before i started back just to get a "feel" for things. I did suggest to a couple of Club secretaries that for a rider to score points towards a club championship then they must have observed at a trial in that year. They could nominate the event beforehand. Ideal if there is a particular event they didnt like riding at all that much. Did also sit wondering at work, it's ok i HATE my job, what it would take to drag somebody away from the TV on a Sunday and you should at least cover their expenses. One of the clubs i ride at already refunds the entry fee for a rider bringing an observer but they still struggle to get half a dozen observers. If it means that entry fees have to go up to bung observers

Well guys what happens where you come from. This has happened at the last two trials i have attended and it's ruining the event and devalues the hard work people have put in laying a course. Also how do you encourage people to observe. Help needed in my centre or it's all going to fold. Tried to post a poll but failed so options are: 1. If there are only 5 observers they observe 5 sections then move onto the next 5 sections. 2. Riders observe each other. 3. More laps of less sections. 4. Only observed sections to count. 5. Refuse to start the trial till there are enough observers. 6. Ask riders to give up their ride. 7. Give up and go home. Also what do you do for the next trial ? How do other centres manage ? How do you make sure there are enough observers.

After todays outing and after letting someone else try the B40, who at least knows what they are doing, it transpires that as i felt the rear shocks on the B40 need sorting. The ones fitted are "Mick Andrews Classic" ones with the black springs and either the spring rate is too heavy or the damping rate is. So do i put them on E bay and fit something else if so what? I was thinking either Betor, heard you can specify the spring rate, Rock Shocks, hear they are around again but dont know where to get them, NJB Trick Shocks , again allegedly you can specify length spring rate etc. Anybody used them on a Pre 65 B40 ? Alternatively should i try to get some lighter springs? If so any ideas where? Will Betor ones fit ? The damping works fine just that the rear is too hard to compress making it a very harsh ride and short of grip. The springs are on the softest pre load but pre load doesnt affect spring rate only the ammount of sag so must be the rate thats at fault. Any ideas or recommendations guys?

No didnt make it in the end. Didnt know if anybody i'd know was going plus to get there for the start i would have had to get up at 5:00 and i dont do mornings. Would still like to go another year especially if there was a bunch going. Alternatively assuming and i know it's a long shot i have a bike that would be legal next year i would like to enter as i would also like to do a couple of trials up in Yorkshire Classic Land. Thats why i am struggleing to get the James project off the ground so i have something i can ride. Did you get there? was it worth the trip? Please tell thanks for asking

To tell the truth i dont know who is actually doing the fabricating. I'm buying the frame through Alan Whitton. Thing is i've had it on order for a while now, 6 months, and i'm impatient to get started but will just have to wait my turn i suppose Always the problem when things are made in small batches. Suppose it looks like WM2 for the rims then. I was leaning that way myself as i thought it would give a slightly rounder tread profile and open up the tread a bit helping to clear the mud. Look i need all the help i can get as talent is out of stock at the moment

Assuming there is an alignment of the planets sometime in the near future and my new James frame materializes then i will need to get some wheels built so i'm gathering bits as i go along ready for if it arrives. So guys i've been offered alloy rims in both WM2 and WM3 but i dont know which to choose In the past i've never given it a thought and just used what was fitted, mostly WM2 i think, as std. I assume that WM2 being slightly narrower would give a rounder tread profile to the tyre and WM3 being slightly wider would give a more square or flatter tread profile. Would the WM3 however close the treads up and the WM2 open them slightly ? Which would give better grip? Cant afford to make the wrong decision. The WM3 is only a couple of quid more but is it any better? I really would appreciate your input based on your experiences I dont have a problem with clearence with the swing arm and will be fitting either Michelin X1 or IRC tubed tyres, assuming i can still get tubed tyres that is. I assume you can use a tubeless tyre with a tube in it on a WM2 or WM3 std rim?

Agree dangerous sections, alongside 6 foot sheer drops and barb wire fences , dont belong in any trial. I dont know about hard or easy sections as what i think is hard somebody else may find easy and visa versa. My personal preference is for a section that rewards inch perfect precision, balance and throttle control and preferably that doesent deterioriate or get more difficult from lap to lap. Oh yes and doesnt require hopping skipping jumping rolling back or other circus performances and if you need a minder / catcher you really are taking the pi** Only a personal opinion but have always felt that Trials are about machine control and should not be about bravery / stupidity or size of wallet. Yours or daddys Most definately an age thing though as i noticed at the last trial i went to the younger, especially the very much younger, riders thought nothing of 4ft sheer drops etc whilst i and many other of the older riders didnt like the idea much at all. I also think too many routes are confusing and unnecessary and usually find two routes adequate. Never lay a trial out for the top two or three riders. If they are clean tough titty. Always target the mass of the entrants. After all everybody pays the same entry fee so everybody deserves equal consideration but "the needs of the many overide the needs of the few" plus if they dont like it they can always ride at harder events or observe or C of C ? Nah didnt think so. How often do you see a "superstar" helping out like that? Back to my original point you can make a section challenging without making it dangerous. Dangerous sections are laid out by people who are too lazy to work it out properly. Only my humble opinions but you did ask.

Good luck with the advert. It's a frame i need unfortunately not a jig Good luck anyway.

Anybody going? Is it worth the long drive? How much is it to get in or is it free like a normal trial for spectators? Never been before but thought it might be an interesting day out and thought i might camp overnight if it was worth it. Let me know your experiences guys

Got the results this morning Wish they hadent arrived now Oh well now i know i'm crap its official Hope your rendezvous with Alan went ok this afternoon Still no further with the James still waiting for news of the frame due date. Still not long to Christmas. Hope it's worth it if it ever arrives. the James frame not Christmas Probably wont make much difference to my scores but at least it will be lighter to pick up in the river Oh well better luck next time at Grange Barn

Derby Pathfinders hold trials at Clifton near Ashbourne. The only legal practice area i know of locally is Bracken Rocks near Watstandwell off the Derby to Matlock road. Pathfinders have a series of Saturday night trials which have an easy route especially suited to novices and also organise a "dead easy trial" Good luck

Anybody seen the results from the Midland Classic Trial at Rhodesia at the weekend? Even went and bought Trials & Motocross News this week but theres nothing in there. Want me money back Not that i've got any delusions cos i know i'm crap but would be nice to know how crap So anybody seen the results?

Now i've done 2 trials on the B40 and slowly fettleing it as each outing brings up a list of things i want improveing / changing. The bikes a Faber framed, old model frame, B40 with Betor forks and OSSA type yokes. The "problem" i'm trying to get me head around at the moment is on steep downhill sections or on sheer drops it has a tendancy to "tuck under". I had a Fantic 240 Pro years ago that was the same. Now i was thinking of swaping the fork yokes for something with less offset, mine are 65mm, but at full compression on the forks there is only 12mm clearence between the front mudguard and the front downtube so not really worth it. I dont want to cut and reweld the frame so thats out too. Only other thing i could think of was to alter the handlebar position Now on my yokes the bars are approx 25mm infront of the headstock spindle. If i move them back and put the front bolt of the clamp through the back bolthole in the yokes the bars are exactly over the spindle. Now i know a man who can make up some adaptors so this could be done properly. Question is would moving the bars back over the spindle have an effect on the bikes tendancy to tuck under or is it just something i have to just put up with??? Looking at my Sherpa the bars are behind the spindle but then again the forks have a leading axle and the rake is shallower and now i'm getting confused as my brain hurts when i try to understand rake and trail and the effects they have. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

Sorry to hear you got a flat. Must put a face to a name at the next trial No it's true about the disc brakes. I wondered why there were holes drilled through and when he rode past i could see through and saw what looked like a disc but i thought i was seeing things. Then at the end i mentioned it to some of the other riders and they confirmed that he has discs fitted. He's apparently using the discs that are fitted to mountain bikes and they are operated by a conventional brake cable so at first glance you dont notice anything. I wouldnt have noticed if it wasnt for the holes drilled through the hubs and the fact that you couldnt see any brake shoes inside. Still seems somehow wrong even if people excuse it because Cheetah experemented with them in the late 60's. Whatever wether he has discs or not will not make ME a better rider and he would still beat me if he had conventional brakes. Just thought it was appropriate to mention it as this thread was about "Pot hunting" and he does ride the Clubman route and he has got "illegal" brakes fitted. Funny how the "names" can get away with things that the real "Clubman" cant??? Dave Thorpe riding a Mcdonald Cub at the Scottish Pre65. Arials with OiF frames but B40 OiF not allowed. Mikuni carbs ok on cubs but not on B40 the list is endless but they could ALL be viewed as "Pot hunting" Oh well better shut up or i will be persona non grata at the next Trial

"Upgrading riders to the main route would be fine if the riders are young and/or improving.However, i suspect riders refered to are approaching 70 years old, and no matter how good they have been, its perhaps understandable that they want a less challenging ride. It does surprise me though that riders who only feel at ease with the easier sections during the year go on to ride premier events such as the pre 65 Scottish, surely more challenging than any of the pre club trial main routes?.." Good point well made. Enjoyied Rhodesia today where you there? even allowing for the embarrasing moment with my handlebars an enjoyable day out. Needed that drink at the end though Only downside, and to tell the truth i'm not sure why it bothered me,was discovering that one of the competitors, who is very good and has won trials in the past, riding the Clubmans easy route at what was lets face it a Pre 65 trial has disc brakes fitted inside disguised Triumph Tiger Cub hubs Pot hunter? cheating? dont know but it just dont seem right somehow especially when some people were making comments about another competitors use of a Fantic tank on a Sprite and me using OSSA sliders NOT disguised inside Norton ones. Funny old world innit

Does annoy me on my return to trials to see ex centre champions who have also won Nationals riding the clubman route. Now this "shouldnt " be a problem except that some of the organisers are now making the Clubman route tougher as the ex centre champions are finishing on 0,1,or 2 scores and tougher sections are required to seperate the winner??????? Thats when it becomes stupid. Suggestion: The winner of a Clubman class rides the "Expert" route for the rest of the season????? Wouldnt be a problem for them as they are obviously good enough but would ensure that the Clubman route is kept at the right level for the Wobblers who after all are the grass roots riders who have kept the sport alive so that the "stars" can have an event to "pot hunt" at Enjoy your ride tomorrow wherever it may be