woody

The centre silencer on a MAR isn't baffle plate, it contains packing around a perforated tube. Only the rear silencer on a MAR is baffled. The packing may either have disappeared completely or be full of gunge. Using a torch won't do anything as the only way to restore the innards to proper working order on one of these (assuming that's what's needed) is to cut it open, remove what's left of the original packing which is also wrapped in wire, clean out the holes in the tube if necessary, then repack it and weld back together.

As above, it's the seat that holds the rear of the tank. If you have the original seat it does the job fine but if it is a Miller seat it probably won't fit snugly against the tank so you can use a releasable cable tie of jubilee clip etc across the tab to hold the back of the tank. You'll also need something under the tank as if you just sit it on the frame tube it will move around and vibrate like hell. You can use the foam tubing that is sold for pipe lagging or use rubber strips cut from old inner tubes etc. Originally they had foam pads or something to stop the vibration. Beautiful job on the tank

Colin at TYOffroad makes and sells the kit you need which keeps the footrest clear of the kickstart. It was his bike that was featured in CDB with Mick doing the test http://www.tyoffroad.co.uk/store/p34/FOOTREST_LOWERING_KIT_%28BOLT-ON%29_TO_FIT_YAMAHA_TY175._.html

I don't have a Verde no but they are virtually a MAR - same frame and swingarm, longer forks, angled shocks. Tank slightly different shape. Engine is the same with a few minor design upgrades, different porting in the cylinder and longer exhaust with that hideous back silencer. The original colour was similar to Ford Modena Green I think but the bikes you see now have mostly been repainted so hard to know whether you're looking at an original colour or resprayed The carb is just a normal 2 stroke Amal MK2 26mm

Can't help with a paint code. but if you're going to paint it all green and fit the green mudguards, I'd buy the mudguards first and then get the paint matched to them. If yo paint it first and then buy the guards, the chances of a colour match are virtually zero as the guards available now are probably some way lighter than the originals. The 250 Verde had an Amal MK2, the Bing was fitted to the 350.

Too many classes, some too confusing and not consistent across all routes What's a Pre85 British twinshock? Armstrong Hiro or Rotax? Well that's a foreign engine with foreign components in a British frame - same as a Beamish, TL Highboy, Bultaco highboy, Godden Majesty, Whitehawk etc etc. So do you have Yamaha framed Majesty in class 3 and Godden framed Majesty in class 4? It's already causing confusion and debate amongst organisers and riders. I don't understand what purpose the twinshock split between Spanish/British and Japanese/Italian serves. In the latter a TY175, or KT250 still has to go against a Fantic 240/300 and in the former a 1970 Bultaco or Montesa still goes up against the latest Cota 330 or 350 or Bultaco 340 or a Merlin (maybe an Armstrong) so where is the incentive to enter them. People seem to have been brainwashed by some of the drivel written on forums over the years that the sections in the Miller series are 'modern classic' sections suitable only for cut and chopped Hondas or Fantics and they think that an older twinshock is not up to it. They are, they are perfectly capable of being used in these trials. They're harder work than the much more capable later twinshocks obviously but they can still do it. Sadly I think too many believe what's been written, on many occassions by people who don't even ride the series, and think the bikes can't cope. I think if the twinshock class was to be split, a better split would have been post and pre-77, giving older bikes a chance to compete against machines from the same era and maybe then more riders would bring them out. There must be hundreds lying unused. This isn't 'having a go' in a negative way, it's based upon my own opinion and discussions that we had after today's Miller round with both organisers and riders, and also upon the suggestions I sent into the ACU in response to their survey. All that was wrong with the current format was the omission of unit / pre-unit class split for the British bikes class over the last few years. The rest of the classes were fine, although I'd still like to see a Pre77 class in twinshock Another possible issue with the current series was maybe with the same clubs running the events every year for the last eight or nine years, some riders feel it has gone a bit stale and just don't want to ride the same sections / groups every year, but if other clubs don't come forward to stage a round then there isn't anything anyone can do about that. There was also the severity of some events that were not testing enough on occassion. The trials need to be challenging enough to take around 10 marks from class winners. Having several riders going clean or losing just a few marks isn't challenging enough for a national series and riders won't travel 2 to 3 hours if the challenge isn't enough when they can find it at a local event. Anyway, thanks to South Birmingham MCC today for an enjoyable trial with their round of the current series. Overnight and early morning rain to spice up the sections, sunshine for most of the trial, nice variety of sections with some good old fashioned mud and a nice ride around the Lower Clee Hill. It was a good event with about 60 riders entered.

If it starts B-700 it will be a 250 verde yes but the 700 run never appears on any of the ID charts. Some of the earlier model number runs don't either, B-43 for example

Measurements: The shaft is 16mm long measuring from it's end up to the spacer inside the oil seal With the sprocket with the flange fitted, there is 6mm of the shaft left visible. I don't have a nut with the flange, only a plain nut and that is 8mm thick, so it overhangs the shaft by 1 - 2mm. The flat nut is about the same thickness as the nut with the flange With a flat sprocket fitted the nut sits virtually flush with the end of the shaft. Early Ossas used to have flat sprockets fitted from what I can remember. I've just taken the sprocket off a MK1 MAR engine and it is flat. How this works with chain alignment between the two different sprockets I don't know as there are no other differences in the external measurements of the final drive shaft between a MK1 MAR engine through to a Gripper Original gearing was 11 / 42. If you want slightly lower, as I do, try 44 on the rear and stick with the 11 tooth front as 10 can give problems with the chain, 11 is less hassle. 11 / 44 is low enough to be honest and the rear dished sprocket available these days just happens to be 44

The thrust washer is approx 2mm in thickness. It's a snug fit with the ID on the shaft, the OD is 30mm. The spacer is also a snug fit on the shaft and 5mm - 6mm in length (digital vernier packed up) The OD is 22mm, slightly thicker than the sleeve which is 20mm

You can also just tap the bearing down the shaft using a tube I've used Pyramid bearings a number of times in the past and they have been a correct fit and depth. Check the size they have supplied to you. They should be is 25mm x 45mm x 12mm. They used to have them listed as Bultaco classic bearings

Timing is personal choice but yes, somewhere between 2 and 3.5 BTDC is the range most commonly used Can't help with points gap or wiring as never had a points ignition Ossa All MARs were fitted with electronic as were Grippers. For whatever reason the TR77 was fitted with points although a few may have had electronic. The MAR or Gripper electronic system will fit straight onto a TR77 as the engines are all the same.

The gold sprocket is the correct one and the raised boss faces inward. Make sure that the spacer is pushed fully home through the seal. When you first push it in it will meet resistance against the internal lip of the seal which can feel as though it has butted up against the bearing. Grease it so that it pushes through the seal easier. There should be plenty of room to get the retaining nut on if the spacer is the correct size and fitted correctly MAR, TR77 and Gripper are all the same

To be honest I don't know that you'd notice any real difference over the course of a road trial whatever carb is fitted if the bike is running correctly If I do a road trial of say 25 miles I can probably get around on a tank but carry a litre bottle in my rucksack just in case. Any more and you really need provision for a top up somewhere around the route. For me this applies whether I'm on my slimline 325 or my 340 and even my Ossa although that holds slightly more fuel, so there's a bit more leeway on that. You're never going to get it down to a precise figure as some single lap trials of the same overall distance may have more roadwork than others and if there is a good amount of moors riding mixed in with the roadwork you will use more than if it was all roadwork

Spud, I object to you stating what I do or don't want and why, as you have no idea. And if you actually took part you'd know I've ridden my BSA in Miller rounds on many occassions as well as my twinshocks I don't want to lose the twinshock class as twinshock has bugger all else in terms of a road based series. As I've said before the KIA is not a twinshock only series and it isn't road based. Pre65 has the Miller, NBB Championship, Pre65 Scottish as well as other Pre65 only events. Does it need another. And yet again you're dragging the topic away from its intended purpose which was ro ask people involved with the series whether they think there is a problem with the current format and if so what. You aren't offering any solutions.

Ignition side is a lot easier to change and makes a difference - whether you need to is personal preference though as there's not much wrong with the pick up of a 325 Bultaco motor, especially for classic trial sections

Just seen the pictures of the bike on the classified ad. If you don't find any electrical issues, the silencer is not standard so I'd also check that as well. There is no reason another silencer won't work but that is from some other bike so you need to be sure it isn't restricting the engine or blocked. It looks as though it is the type that has a perforated tube running through it with packing, if so the tube needs to be roughly 25mm diameter. As it looks a repackable type it may be worth pulling it apart and repacking. Try running the bike with it removed first. The standard silencer is welded onto the middle box on the green bikes, they are one unit, so someone has cut the tailpipe off and replaced it with that one. Not a problem if it is a suitable type. The silencer on the green bikes is considered by some to be restrictive by some, I've never had one so can't comment but I've known them to be modified to be less restrictive Also, it's been fitted with a MK2 swingarm which is the same length but the shock mounts are further forward. On the TR77 they are over the rear spindle. If the shocks are the standard length, standard is about 13.5", this would have the effect of raising the back of the bike. However, the shocks look shorter than standard but the back still looks high - it's possible the the rear mudguard loop has been bent upwards a little to give more clearance. The green models had longer forks than the MAR by about 2" and generally, they sat a bit high at the front, so usually the forks were raised through the yokes with about 1.5 to 2" protruding from the top yoke to drop the front and level the bike up, as well as reducing the chopper effect. Your forks are flush so it's going to feel like a tall bike with that set up

Yes 350 Bing, 250 Amal

The symptoms of the poor running bescribed by the previous owner sounded more like electrical problems than carb - it's on the other topic which is just titled 'Ossa TR77' http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/61308-ossa-tr77/ I suggested some things to check on there which are common issues on the wiring harness of Ossa if they still follow the original routing If the dellorto has been taken of a GasGas or suchlike, it should be pretty close to Ossa jetting and at least run without the symptoms described. It might need fine tuning to get it top run perfectly but it should still rev up. I've just had a similar problem on my Bultaco when it suddenly began missing, backfiring, spitting back and wouldn't rev up. It was the spade terminal onto the coil which had corroded and was hanging by a thread. It was enough to give a spark when checking but under compression the spark wasn't strong enough and the bike wouldn't run properly. New spade connector and it ran perfectly again. Personally I'd check the electrics first before spending about £150 on a carb you may not need. Also, from the previous owner's description I didn't realise it was a dellorto fitted. If it is the conventional type, PHBH or PHBL, they don't have an airscrew, it's a fuel screw if it is on the inlet side of the carb in relation to the idle screw and they work the opposite way around to an airscrew - In to weaken the mixture and out to richen, so it's possible that is out of adjustment too

The TR77 had a MK2 Amal as standard which you can still buy new from Amal Carburetttors. But before you do that - Is this the bike from the classified ads on this site which the previous owner was asking for help with poor running - see previous topic in the Ossa forum

Now that some form of tranquility has returned, maybe we can have some thoughts from riders who have participated in the series, what we think is actually wrong with the Miller series and why entries have dropped a little at some rounds, Or is the current format acceptable and it may be just a certain amount of apathy that has seen riders drift in and out. I know quite a few riders who have taken part but have dropped out again, but they have also dropped out of other trials they competed in, including modern, so in those cases, occassional interest in trials in general can't be blamed on the Miller format. I know of other riders who get fed up with the maintenance of older bikes, British or twinshock, and just park them up and go back to their modern bikes until they find the enthusiasm to set to with the spanners again. No matter how thorough you are in preparation, 40 plus year old components and castings can give trouble at any point. The modern bike can be used without the same level of upkeep (generally) It's possible also that some riders have lost interest in riding the same trials/sections since the series dropped to 7 rounds as they have been the same clubs who run events year in year out. This isn't a criticism of mine but I daresay it could be true of some other riders who feel it has gone a bit stale. For me the format is pretty close to being right. Road based and a mix of twinshocks and British bikes. I'd be very disappointed if a decision was made to exclude twinshocks from a future format as these bikes have no other national series that offers the opportunity to ride traditional one lap road events. There is now the KIA yes, but it's offroad and also includes British and Monoshocks, so it isn't a twinshock series as some keep stating. Some riders travel together and one may have twinshock, the other British, so exclude one and you possible lose both. Personally I like the variety of bikes we have at the moment although it would be nice to see some older models of twinshocks out there, which brings me onto the next point. Classes. I'd like to see the big pre-units have their own class back as I don't think it appropriate that they are grouped in the same class as the smaller and modified bikes - Bantams, James, Cubs, C15 etc. So I'r run along the lines of: Sidecar Rigid Pre-unit 4-stroke over 350cc (did they do any under 350 as I'm no expert on Pre-units Unit 4-stroke over 350cc Unit 4-stroke and 2-stroke up to 350cc And for twinshocks I'd like to see a Pre and Post 1976 class. I don't like the idea of Spanish and non-Spanish classes as I don't think it achieves anything. With this split you give riders of earlier bikes the chance to compete in a class against each other as I'm reasonably sure that at the moment they won't take part as they think that the sections are set for Fantics etc. This isn't true at all but people believe what is written on forums etc by others who don't even take part... I've ridden my 1970 Sherpa on the hard route there have been no sections too hard for the bike. There have been some, but they are an exception in a couple of trials, where some sections have been too tight, requiring clutch/brake inching around turns - which I hate, The bike will still do them but it's a struggle and a clean very hard to achieve whereas on a more modern of modified Pre65 they are a no challenge. The 1976 break is a natural as that was the year that longer travel suspension started as well as complete redesigns of current models. Montesa 348, 349, Ossa MAR MK3 with angled dampers, Green MAR, Yamaha Majesty, Beamish, Fantic,SWM etc all go in Post 76 leaving the older Spanish models, RL Suzuki, KT, TY175 and 250, TL Honda etc all in the earlier class. Yes some models cross over such as the Montesa 247 and the TY175 and 250 but they barely changed so a later model is technically the same as the earlier model, so I'd put them as pre-76 Components for the twinshocks should be limited to only allowing what was available at that time which means nothing later than 1986, so if someone has Yam mono forks it doesn't matter, they could have done that then as they came out in '83 - plus they won't turn a bike into a 'cheating winner'. Their better action would be barely noticeable. Also, a lot of bikes also have them fitted and it isn't right to make people retro fit parts now. Frames and engines should be from the appropriate period, so if you have a combination of an early / late frame or engine, you enter the later class. Wheels I wouldn't worry about as many bridge the two periods. Minimalists rules which are hopefully easy to police. Tubeless rims allowed and carburettors free. I think the modification of twinshocks is a lot less of an issue than is written about. Yes there are some but most of the bikes I see competing are close to standard, ie: they haven't had frames chopped, may have had footrests altered but still run most of the original components. As bars are a lot lower now than they were in the 70s some (me included being tall) fit bar risers or have the yoke modified to allow bar risers as they are difficult to fit to swept back mounts such as Bultaco / Yamaha. Yes, a small few go berserk and think you need head angles altering, big volume airboxes (what's that all about when a trials bike spends most of it's time on quarter throttle...) modern forks, special exhausts etc etc but for what purpose. Today's classic trials are nowhere near the severity of an old centre trial. People telling you that you need this mod and that mod to make your twinshock competitive for today's 'modern' classic sections talk hogwash. I well remember what Mark Hicken could do on a 240 Fantic back then without any of these mods on sections that would have a classic trial entry from today pack up and go home without unloading their bikes... For routes I'd keep the current format which allows the option of a third easy route where needed for rigids and sidecars, so that's route 1 - hard, route 2 - easy and route 3 - rigid/sidecar. All other classes other than sidecar/rigid have the option of entering route 1 or route 2. Rigid/sidecar do route 2 when no route 3 That's how I'd like to see it go forward, hopefully the reintroduction of the pre-unit class would bring more of those bikes back and the twinshock split might see more older twinshocks competing From what I've seen over the years, section severity across all routes is suitable for all, obviously there are exceptions due to weather or when organisers just get things wrong (we all make mistakes) but I would like to see some sightly more challenging sections on the harder route from time to time. That doesn't mean dangerous of tight, just a bit more challenging as some rounds can be very easy and if you have a chain derail for example it's the end of any chance of a top place as there is no opportunity to pull marks back My thoughts anyway - any more? EDIT: And no specials class for twinshock. There is no need and standard-ish bikes are more than adequate. Giving a class to specials just encourages people to construct them. If they don't comly with the rules, let them ride on a no points basis but don't have a seperate championship class for them

Well you give is a laugh if nothing else Spud You have never competed in any of the series whose rules you criticise - ever. You know nothing of the issues that may affect the Miller series from personal experience, or possible causes for reducing entries - although you overlook the fact that they have been pretty well supported until the last round. I doubt you've actually spoken to or even know anyone who has supported it. You've stated yourself you've never ridden a Miller round, never ridden any of the other trials series whose eligibility criteria you criticise, you admit you've never considered entering a road trial, which means you never will enter a Miller round in the future either, whatever the rules may be. You aren't prepared to actively do anything to rectify a situation that only you seem to think needs rectifying, you just pontificate on here and suggest others implement your ideas You disregard again my points on other trials as they disprove your theory and didn't bother to respond directly to my point about the Talmag having modified and standard machines competing in the same class - a point I'm willing to be proven wrong on but if right has your theory spiraling earthbound in a ball of flame You have no real purpose to involving yourself in these discussions as you'll never ride or assist in the running of an event yourself. Seems to me that as has been mentioned before in your previous topics on Pre65 eligibility, you are just trolling for fun and trying to wind people up.

Still banging on about unfair competition as the reason for falling entries I see NBB Championship 100+ entries Manx classic 200+ entries with over 100 oversubscribed Midlands BMCA championship 50 entries average Scottish Pre65 180 entries with around 200 oversubscribed All of the above have standard and modified machines competing together in the same class You cite the Talmag as fair to standard machines and representative of how a Pre65 trial should be run. I'm willing to be corrected but there is no specials class which means modified bikes are competing against standard bikes in the same class? If so it has no detrimental effect on entries Whatever the reason for falling entries in the Miller series it has nothing to do with your theory. The number of modified bikes has also decreased, as well as twinshocks. Tell me how that equates to your reasoning? If you had been competing in these events over the last 10 - 15 years and were still in touch with riders who no longer support it and therefore aware of their views and feelings, you may find people give your theory some credibility. But you haven't and you're not so what exactlyhave you based your thinking on?

I don't know what gearing your bike was on when you got it but standard gearing was 11 : 46 for a 520 chain

When you say you took it apart, how much of it did you dismantle? The small oil seal in the end of the output shaft (that seals the pushrod, not the much larger output shaft seal) can have a cavity behind, depending on how far in the seal is fitted, so if you're feeding the ball bearings through the oil seal they may be lying behind it where they dropped instead of sliding into the pushrod housing tube. Gently prise out the small oil seal, you can use the pushrod to do this, and see if they are behind it. There is nowhere else for them to go if you're feeding them in from that side.

Try and be pragmatic about that standard HT5. If someone was 20 and riding one of those in say 1960 they are now 76 years old. Most will be older. Do you still think they could manage one of those or is a nice lightweight modernised bike going to keep them in the sport longer. Anyone riding one of those at the outset of the classic scene, before the modernising started, is now also going to be the same age, so the same applies. They can retire from the sport or ride a modernised lightweight bike Younger riders, or very few of them, are not going to be interested in riding something like that. They want to ride more interesting and challenging sections, not up a green lane with a few bumps or up and down a few grassy banks. How are you going to get 100 plus entries of riders riding that type of bike? You also continue to avoid the question of why the Northern series and Manx classic attract massive entries with a mix of bikes with no scrutineering to separate standard or modernised bikes. By your reasoning, these two series should have failed also