woody

A couple of local lads bought a new 4RT each a few months back and are having issues with the fork seals. One bike sprung a leak on one leg and it was replaced under warranty. It has now blown the other seal and the other bike has also now got a leak from one seal Neither bike has had hard use as they are both novice standard and just go out and play on them, not ride trials. They've only been used half a dozen times. Another rider who had a new 4RT has said it's an issue and replacing the seals with new standard Montesa / Honda seals won't cure the problem, you have to use green seals. The dealer is miles away but will only provide standard replacements under warranty, if they want the green seals they have to pay for them and the price that they've been given (not by the dealer) is something like £60 a pair... Has anyone come across this problem with the latest 4RT and if so how was it fixed? Seems strange to me that Honda should have a problem with fork seals, but both bikes have suffered the same issue and it also happened to the bike belonging to the rider who mentioned the green seals as a fix. Anyone know what the green seals are, or any reliable replacements other than the standard seals if they are in fact giving problems?

Do you think it's worth anything near that much Stuart? Would even a restored bike put back to original or near original get that much? I've seen much better examples than that one go for a lot less. I guess it depends what someone would want it for, if you just wanted to get it good enough to ride you wouldn't have to spend too much on it, the engine sounds healthy enough, but you have still ended up paying a fair bit over 4k for something that isn't worth it If you want one to put back to catalogue spec to just look at and not ride, or treat as an investment, it is going to end up owing you around 6k with labour unless the owner does a lot of work themselves. At a quick glance the following would need to be done for catalogue,spec: Full exhaust and heat shield - £260 Frame repaint - £100 Sidepanels - £30 Rims are wrong, new rims and wheel build - £300, maybe more if new spokes needed Tank repair, lining and respray - £300 Original mudguards - £200 Polishing / Rechroming parts - £200 Seat - £160 Original style number board - £40 Original shocks - £150? On top of that you'd need original bars with welded levers, IRZ carb and speedo kit, no idea if any of these are available or how much, although I guess they are in Spain, but maybe another £2-300 needed? You end up with a bike owing you a lot of money which is fine if you don't mind spending it and it's what you want but risky if you ever expect to recover it one day. I've spent more on some of mine than I will ever get back (although nowhere near that much) I think it's way over priced, not sure I'd even want to give half of the opening bid price for it.

Although on a personal level I don't care what they do with the rules of this trial, Including the M10 is a strange decision at best, especially after all the fuss they make about bikes and components being of Pre-65 origin and appearance, but the rules and their application have always been a contradiction If they meant to clarify that 4 speed Bultacos manufactured before 1965 - ie: Sherpa N, are allowed to compete then they've screwed up completely choosing wording which simply states 'Bultaco - 4 speed models only', as that obviously includes the M10 - a bike which is not, however anyone may want to try and convince themselves or anyone else, a Pre-65 bike. That's enough to exclude it alone. Put it in the exclusions - No M10 Sherpa T models. Then there is the final eligibility statement: None of the above exclusions shall apply to any component of any machine which is, or proven to be, Pre ’65 original factory fitment to that machine. So the M10 shouldn't be allowed on that basis either, it's a bike that wasn't manufactured until 1965, therefore you can't prove that any component fitted to an M10 was fitted to that bike before 1965 as the bike did not exist before 1965. Add to that the forks, wheel, some engine components and not to mention the overall appearance of the bike differ noticeably from the 1964 components and bike and you have another reason. By accepting the M10 into the trial, does that mean they consider that the parts fitted to it are considered Pre-65. So why are Bultaco forks and hubs listed as an exclusion on British bikes? Does it work the other way around and the M10 must use an IRZ carb and not an Amal which wasn't fitted to 4 speed models by Bultaco? It just gets more and more bizarre every year...

Seems DVLA have changed the requirement for insurance and you only need insurance now if you're registering to an address in Northern Ireland.

What about the 4 speed Ossa and Montesa - why only the Bultaco I wonder?

Early M10 had round, later M10 had the flat bottom tank

Very true - whereas it would slaughter a genuine Pre-65 bike, the modernised versions are as good as a Fantic, so yes, you're quite right

The Seeley is very light on the front. I fitted an RTL engine in one I had a few years ago and the extra torque over the 200 motor made it difficult to keep weight on the front. On up hill camber turns it just ploughed on and if you tried to float turn it didn't want to come down. If you shut off the power and then came back on up a climb the front just wanted to lift, and if you came to a near stop up a muddy or loose climb and had to sit on it and push it was almost impossible to get any forward drive as it just wanted to climb around the back wheel. I put the standard motor back in, sold the bike and the RTL engine. Of the two bikes, I preferred a mate's TLR200 I had a ride on, it felt more planted and was a standard bike, just geared properly with lower footpegs.

I think they are a reasonably rare bike in Spain as most were exported. The Spanish classic trials are structured differently from ours in that they have classes defined by era, so the 4 speed Sherpa is in the Pre-72 class. With a rider as good as any other in the class, it can be a competitive bike. When I last rode the Pre65 in 2007 there were two Spanish bikes entered, a Montesa and a Sherpa. The Montesa was maybe entered as an Impala, don't know, which were available before 1965 but only as 175cc. The first trials model was 1967 followed soon after by the Cota MK1. The bike in the trial looked and sounded like a 250. The Sherpa should have been a Sherpa N to qualify and it was dressed like one except that it had a 5 speed motor...

Blue

So it's a Pre65 trial but the 4 speed Sherpa T ran from 1965 until 1967... It just says 4 speed, not that it must be a Sherpa N or Pre65 Sherpa or that the Sherpa T is excluded. The thought process behind these regs gets ever stranger... They can make those model 10 Sherpas go pretty well with mods, so they could actually be very competitive with the right rider.

Frame was silver - Ford Silver Fox is a very good match (1960/70s colour) You can get Haynes or Clymer manuals (always on ebay) or In Motion sell a manual that covers all 5 speed models

They push in from the outside If the rear top shock mounts are level with the bottom side panel mount it's a '76 MK3 MAR. If they're level with the top side panel mount it's a '77/78 TR77 black frame, green tank, or a '79 TR77 Verde, green frame. You can check with the engine/frame number (should be the same) here http://ossa.2y.net/ossa/reference/ossaref.html

Done, should be ok now

The bike has maybe been brought in from Europe as in some countries I think they were stamped with a second chassis number, not sure which country(s) though. Germany or Italy maybe? I'm sure I've seen this before. Forks are Marzocchi and wheel is Grimeca, maybe from an SWM looking at the fork caps. Rear wheel also Grimeca. The only issue with the forks is that they are longer than Bultaco forks and will sit the bike up at the front altering the handling. They need pushing through the yokes to get the correct height back at the front of the bike but the top yoke would need to have the lip inside removed as this stops the forks being pushed through. There isn't a photo with a full on side shot, so difficult to see how much the forks affect the way the bike sits. Rear shocks are Falcons which are as good as they get, so if not worn out, there is no issue with them, as long as they were set up for that bike originally. Kickstart just looks like one from the previous models and as you say, has been bent to clear the frame as on the A and B models the kickstart can hit the frame. Motor sounds ok but hard to tell really as the sound gets distorted through speakers. The bike looks unmolested which is a bonus and just seems like and honest used example. Some prices being asked for Bultacos are ridiculous and as expected, many remain unsold as no-one is willing to pay the high prices asked. Look on completed items on ebay to see what people are actually willing to pay (obviously there may be some ringers in there...) and also to see those with high prices which have no bids and are listed over and over. For this bike, I'd say around £900 would be a reasonable price, assuming it is mechanically sound. If so it looks like something you could take straight out and ride with little expenditure. Only issue is the front forks and how much they affect the handling, but that won't stop you riding it and is something that could be sorted later if necessary.

Looks like most of your questions have been answered but what do you really want to know in the context of are they alright? It's subjective and personal opinion. Yes they're a decent bike but not as good as the Bultaco of the same era as they had virtually no development from the original MAR, just longer travel suspension with angled rear and longer forks, revised porting on the cylinder which made them a bit quicker on pick up as the MAR has a fairly docile power delivery. Longer front pipe and one of the most ridiculous rear silencers ever stuck on a trials bike. Green bikes usually had points, Ossa went back to electronic on the Grippers. The green bike with the black frame was 1977, hence TR77, the green frame was introduced in 79, TR77 Verde and was the same bike apart from gold rims and all green frame and guards. The 350, usually called 310 is actually 302cc. I've never ridden a 350 TR77 so no idea what they go like and never ridden a 250 TR77 in sections, so can't really compare with the power delivery of the earlier bikes. I've got a TR77 350 cylinder and it is slightly different porting from my MK2 350 cylinder but how that translates to performance I've no idea. I had a MK3 MAR years ago for a short while and it felt too high with the long travel suspension and needed the forks pulled up through the yokes to make it steer like the MK2 which is a very good handling bike. Maybe it could have done with slightly shorter rear shocks too but Ossa actually moved the shock top mount on the TR77 which probably had the same affect. It's all academic now as when the bikes were new, top centre and national riders would have needed the bike to be as competitive as possible against the bikes from other manufacturers. Nowadays, the sections ridden in classic trials are nowhere near as hard as sections from centre and national trials back then and the bike, even in standard chopper form, is more than capable of handling classic events. If your not riding it in trials it matters even less. Maintenance is no different from other bikes. Yes it has the same oil for clutch and gearbox, 800 - 900cc, but can't see why that is an issue, the Bultaco and Montesa are the only bikes I can think of off the top of my head that have seperate gear and clutch oil. Points maintenance is no different from other bikes but if it has electronic it needs none, just check inside the casing now and again to make sure there is no water in there as the timing cover isn't a brilliant fit in front of the drive sprocket. A useful mod is to move the wires from the stator from exiting through the bottom of the case to exit through the front of the case. There are articles on here somewhere describing how to do this, if not already done. When the wires exit from the bottom they are bent 90 degrees and can get trapped between the sumpguard and engine if the sump has had a good battering which can split the insulation enough to short out the wire and kill the spark. Same can also happen if the insulation has gone hard / brittle over the years.and cracked. The rear brake plate has a flange / slot in it to locate on a lug on the swingarm instead of a torque arm. The alloy of the brake plate is very brittle and if there is any chatter in the fit of the slot on the lug it is possible to break the top flange of the slot clean off if the rear brake is applied hard, meaning you have no rear brake as the plate is no longer fixed in place and free to rotate (I've done it on 3 bikes over the years) It's probably beneficial to pack shims to remove any slack if it's possible to do so and eliminate any chatter from the brake plate. Lastly, all UK bikes had alloy tanks so if the one you're looking at has fibreglass it's probably a later import, unless someone has retro fitted a glass tank. The black framed TR77 had the same alloy tank as the earlier bikes but the green framed bike had a re-shaped tank with an extended front

Yes, it happens, dirt and gunk can get down the pushrod tube and can cause it to stick. I've had it happen, not enough to stop the clutch being disengaged but enough to overcome the springs and prevent the clutch from re-engaging when the lever is let out.

On a 191, only a 325 exhaust will fit (from model 159 onward) The early 325 motors, up to 151, were essentially overbored 250 motors and used the same diameter pipe and bolt on stub as the later 250 (from the model 158 onward) As Larry mentioned, 250 up to model 150 used the threaded collar. The new design 325 motors from model 159 onward, used a larger diameter manifold and stub than the 250 and even as a complete unit they aren't interchangeable because the 325 stud spacing also is wider than the 250. On the 325, you also need to look out for different diameter joints from middle silencer to backbox when using items from other models as they vary. Easily sorted though by welding on new pipe to make the required size coupler

For a UK MK2 MAR the tanks were made and painted here and the decals were made here so they were never the original factory colours, whatever they were. I always used Ford Diamond White. The Goneli rear guard works if it mounted far enough back otherwise they fall short and look ridiculous leaving half the rear tyre exposed, but when mounted like this they only reach under the seat and need another to act as a lower splashguard. The Stilmoto full length look better and the edges can be rounded off at the back if you don't like the squared off look

Not sure if you're on facebook Matt but I've put pictures on. The V behind the filler cap is about right from what I remember but it may be that the point should be a bit closer to the filler cap, but not by much if so. The silver was Ford platinum silver https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=827035540775641&set=pcb.827036407442221&type=3&theater If you're not able to see them,PM me your email and I'll email them to you

I think I still have a topside picture of the bike I rebuilt a few years ago but won't be home until late this evening, so can't look until then. The original blue was usually similar to the later 340 blue which is RAL 5015 (close enough) I'm not sure where the tanks were actually painted or whether they were all the same colour. Don't know whether Homerlite painted them or left it up to the importer. The blue on the Haynes manual is the more common type but I've seen them darker as well. A mate had one that was nearly new at the time and that was a much darker blue. Impossible to know really whether they were all painted the same and some changed by owners or whether they were different shades from new. I did mine a shade of blue I liked as I'm not that bothered about originality but the pattern of the blue / silver was done to original. I can't post photo on here, I can put it on my facebook page which is open and you can find under Dave Wood - but won't be until tonight

No, when Pedrosa made up ground at the end and looked faster he took Marquez but then went wide which allowed Marquez back through - where people got the notion that Marquez bit straight back and took Pedrosa at will (as evidence he wasn't trying to pass Lorenzo) I don't know. Pedrosa clearly went wide on the brakes. Had he not we'll never know if Marquez could have passed him back. As for Marquez helping Lorenzo by not attempting a pass, there were also a few other races during the season where Marquez followed behind Lorenzo unable to make a pass on him the entire race, both for first or second place - those races are conveniently forgotten when people say Marquez always makes a pass.

They are a 250 engine yes, so converting it to a 250 is easy enough. They have a different chassis from the blue 350 model as they use a chassis from the '76 - '78 250 models, these differed by being shorter and with a slightly different headstock design which used shorter forks and a shallower bottom yoke. This chassis is a nimbler chassis than the 350 and the 250 Sherpas are good bikes, usually overlooked by punters in favour of the bigger model. The 250 isn't lacking in power and a much better bet than 175cc.

In the UK - unlikely, I've never heard of anyone having one in stock If you're able you can make something that will do the job http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/18875-ossa-mar-flywheel-puller/?hl=ossa+cushdrive Where it mentions the plate with the hole in (preferably round in shape) it is also a benefit to machine a recess into the area around the hole so that when the plate is pulled forward to locate against the two collars, the collars fit snugly into the recess which helps prevent them from being pulled out of the groove when you start to apply pressure with the puller

Yes Sam's own development 325 before they went into production, which he probably used to prove most of his own aftermarket parts... He also used a Mikuni on it.