grahamjayzee

Capitalist? Me? Please... If you could just see my accountant for your rental contribution on my post.... Seriously, the commercial aspect is secondary to the less sound = more ground aregument for me, and also the technical challenge. I would love to turn up at a club trial and be able to ride an electric bike, just for the hell of it. subanator, thatnk you for the links. I have a fair old file on this project now, but every extra helps. I have quite a lot of ideas now and a lot of blind alleys have already been avoided by the kind input of everyone here and elsewhere. Let's see what happens! Graham

Piston life is about the same? That surprises me a little. Strokers have their rings dragged across gaping cylinder ports and as such usually last a lot less. I would expect a 4-bang piston and rings to last a fair bit longer, maybe 3:1? Graham

I'm hoping that common sense and good manners prevail, and it should never get as far as sanctions, but we should NEVER accept abuse of officials. At trials I ride, most observers are their own people and 'banter' with riders and all is good. However, support for observers should come from everyone at the trial. Let's face it, abusers are a tiny minority and it's rarely going to be that incidents occur without waiting riders seeing it. Again, a quiet word from other riders will 're-align' most people. If not these riders need to support the observers and clerks of the course by having a gentle word. Look at Rugby as an example of a sport of high energy and likely flashpoint being properly game managed but supported officials and a no-abuse policy. Instant 10-minue sin-binning or territorial losses seriously hurt a team and are effective sanctions that prevent abuse. I'm not advocating that observers issue penalty marks, but if persistant offenders were to be issued 5s for abuse, it would soon stop. I'm not talking about a rash outburst followed by an immediate apology, but persistant repeat offenders. They can appeal with fee the same as they can for any mark decision, but if any rider had supported the allegation of abuse, it's just cost them

Let's face facts; you need all the manliness you can get...

They certainly are! There are constant fights and friction between all these groups. Look at the mis-information spouted around to try and prevent MTB riders using areas such as the peaks and the lake district. I'm not against protecting areas of beauty but all these people forget that it is the activities of an area's inhabitants that moulds an area over large periods of time. What all these groups need to do is stop fighting and start talking as one. But that's a long way off, as you say!

There's one other important addition you haven't yet tried; A bucket of soapy water and a sponge!

Thanks for your input everyone, some interesting viewpoints here. I did some initial research yesterday and whilst I think it's viable, at the moment we will pay a weight and price penalty. It's hard to instigate a transition when you are offering less for more! However, there are still drivers towards this and for many people the extra cost and decreased (apparent) performance are not so important. Certainly, noise and acceptable use are very strong drivers. Nicks_TR34, I sympathise with your position due to you having had your collar felt whilst practicing, but consider this: I used to go mountain biking every weekend. Mountain bikes are not only tolerated but encouraged at places like Epping and Thetford forests. Both of these places provide some excellent trials terrain (particularly Epping). The Trials MTB crowd spend a lot of time doing exactly what we do on motorbikes, on bicycles. How would that be any different on an electric bike? With careful liaison with the controllers of these pieces of land, there is no reason why EV trials bikes cannot co-exist with MTBs. I think they have to be looked at from this point of view rather than from a motor replacement view with regards to acceptable use. I for one would love to practice in Epping; it has some cracking terrain. Sure, there are always nay-sayers in the UK, but it is politically expediant to move towards green initiatives so a cohesive approach could open more doors than it closes. I also sympathise with the position that IC engines are the reason many of us do what we do. There's a lot in this and certainly there are fewer more evocotive aromas than that of Castrol R! However, if this were taken from me, would I be prepared to lose all that goes with it? Not for me, I'd prefer an alternative. I can see that many people would be lost to the sport, but we may also attract many more that presently find an engine a noisy, smelly and maintenance intensive device. With regards to transition, I completely agree that an EV needs to feel as close to a traditional bike as possible. Weight at the moment is going to make it feel different, however power characteristics can be tailored to how you like them. This is a serious plus. Imagine trying out your mates new 4RT and falling in love with it's delivery so simply go home and download a 4RT map for your EV? That sort of thing enable users to grow with their bike and not fight it. Nick again, you mention whether an EV would be a practice aid. I guess for many people, probably. However I'm not so sure it matters about transition from your practice bike to your competition bike. I used to do much practice on a bicycle, that was about as far removed as possible, but it certainly helps your trials riding. Also, were my Beta to break and I bought a different bike, I'd ride it in a trial without any practice and enjoy it just the same. I'm no world champion so the (small) differences moving bikes makes, makes little difference to me; the fundamentals are always the same. This is of course on the pre-requisite that the EV bike feels similar to an IC bike with the same control layout. Thanks again everyone, Interesting discussion. Graham

I tried to get my company to buy a Denali (for reverse engineering purposes, y'know...) back in 2001 but they wouldn't! It looked quite capable. There is another bike that is similar to the Zoom: http://www.quantyabikes.co.uk/ I didn't spot that the electricmoto bike is from the old Denali project. I think battery technology WILL improve, but we are more likely to be forced to change by legislation than tempted to change! If we are lucky, battery technology will be to a level where we don't have to take too big a performance cut, if at all. I still think it's a long way off before conventional bikes are confined to the pages of history, but we could win a lot of friends as a sport if we get ahead of the game. Graham

It's a fair cop!

I think there's a fair amount of info on the OSET bikes in the OSET forum, but yes, I would have done very bad things to have had one of those as a lad! I have seen pictures of a Scorpa electric prototype and I know Honda have spent a fair bit of time researching EV bikes..

Also, think about all the comment about the power delivery differences of all the bikes available and the efforts we go to to fine tune this. How cool would it be to be able to dial in whatever power characteristics we want, down to the size and width of power pulses, which will affect how the bike grips? It could be more than just a green alternative; it could have a whole set of merits of it's own...

Thanks Wherry. I'd had a read of this one, he's spent a fair bit of time on it, hasn't he? I used to work for an Electronic consultancy working in the Automotive industry and we did a fair bit of work on EVs. I may be able to dredge up some useful knowledge here... Graham

Hi All, I may possibly come across as a bit crackpot here, but bear with me... Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences of electric trials bikes (apart from kids/ OSET bikes)? Without letting on too much, I am seriously considering a development of a full-sized adult trials bike with Electric power? Why the heck would I want to do this? Well, sooner or later, like it or not, it will become harder to purchase and use conventional trials bikes. Certainly, noise issues near my home in Cambridge have all but ruled out practice as we are so easily upset these days. A trials bike isn't particularly loud, but it hangs around in one area so becomes irritating. Where I live there is a large nature reserve owned by the RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds for those not familiar with this UK organisation). MTBs are tolerated, but a trials bike put-putting away disturbs the birds and therefore other people's enjoyment of the area. Technology is moving on, and it should be possible to power a bike electrically to at least clubman level. I for one would be happy to ride the route I presently ride on an electric bike; maybe expert standard will take a bit longer though. Anyone got any thoughts? Anyone had a go and made one? I'd love to hear your thoughts Graham

Thanks 29ty, only if it was dead easy for you to do so. I'm really after the weight of the engine/box from a modern mainstream 250ish bike so I don't know how representative the peewee would be. Thanks anyway Graham

I tried to do this mid-section once as the ends cards were a long way from where the observer was standing and I didn't think he'd hear me. However he still didn't hear me as my mouth was full of leaves...

Obscure question; does anyone know the approximate weight of an engine/'box from any modern trials bike? 2T and 4T would be useful. Also, weight of the exhaust system? Failing that, the weight of the rolling chassis including brakes and suspension? Don't ask why, I'd have to kill you... Thanks Graham

A very good point Tayld, and nicely made. I have always felt that 'match officials' should be treated with respect in all sports, but particularly in ours where there are very few situations where there are queues of willing observers dissapointed because they haven't a section. If we want our sport to continue we must protect this valuable resource. It also brings to the fore the question of sportsmanship. I have said this before but for the majority of riders in a trial, the class win is not the main driver and even if it is, is another little trophy for the mantlepiece to go along with 47 other 'best clubman' trophies that important? Take every decision, good or bad, on the chin. Human as observers are a facet of our sport and their interpretation of our performances is the real measure, not OUR interpretation. As a good sportsman who offers a sincere thankyou for a contentious mark against you, you may well make the next one go in your favour anyway. Act like a sporting gentleman (or lady) and everyone benefits! Graham

Grim, isn't it? There are a lot more options for noisy, anti-social crossers than there are for us trialies. I think the problem is that we tend to hang around in one area as where the enduro/ trail geezers are through and off, and the crossers make a lot of noise and then break limbs/ their bikes after half an hour! We are there for longer and are slow moving so easy prey for the nay-sayers!

Thanks Dean, I'm busy for the next few weeks but will try to get up there at the start of february. I'll drop you a line. Graham

Sorry, type. Meant to say Thanks Dean.

Thanks Den, you're a star. When you say 'get there early', what time of day does it start to get busy? Are there areas where trials bikes are likely to be on their own (crossers and 4be4s don't usually like tree lined banks!) Graham

If I'm not there start without me! I remember the same lass Slapshot is talking about saying that to me too...

Deandev, can you let me have nearest postcode, or grid reference please? Thanks Graham

This is the post: "if youre looking for somewhere to practice i'd suggest skewbridge! its a bit of waste land near higham ferris and rushden. just on the side of the road, you get a lot of lads on mx bikes there but there are a few of us that sometimes go out nfor a practice there. but if you want to go id go soon because i think the council mite be closing the ground completely to buil on "