grahamjayzee

Lots of intersting points, and some that may be changing my opinion! I think I still prefer the notion of no-stop, but I can see where the arguments against are coming from. A couple of rhetorical questions though: *Is it really necessary to have the same rules for WTC level as for everything else? These guys get to practice, so can practice what they want. After all, it's not the same indoor to outdoor and most of us don't aspire to be indoor mentalists! Or do we? Am I speaking too much from my own POV? *Is it a big problem of we lose a few 5s? This seems to be the main arguement against no-stop. I don't have good enough concentration to do well at low-scoring trials where a careless 3 may put me 5th. Mud-fests where the range is 30-100 gives me a better chance of recovering from a careless one. So what if the nature of the results sheets changes from 1-40 to 30-100. We'll all get used to that, but I bet the ORDER will be pretty similar! But, I am not against tweaking the rules to let the sport develop and keep current. It comes down to what we all believe is the essence of our sport. Let's leave the clubbies out of this because that area of the sport has (thankfully) remained pretty static for years (I've just come back to the sport after a 13 year lay-off, and trust me, not much has changed!). The real issues are at the sharper end. I agree that a well thought out and executed ride should be rewarded, but there has to be options available to suit rider's styles and strengths and weaknesses. I like Ian's idea about time penalties (although it puts a bit of pressure on observers) as a no-stop ride can be rewarded but is not essential. This can be made to work well in the sarf because NOT ALL sections need to be marked this way; only ones where the terrain is suitable for both approaches. Tactical dabs have been part of my riding for years (tells you a lot really) and have always been prepared to sacrifice a dab for a big haul where I know my skills are inadequate to make that tight downhill turn. With a time penalty system, you have the option to take a dab, hop and bounce, or commit to a no-stop ride. Needs some working because the no-stop may take longer, but I think this idea of available options is worth exploring. AndySV1K has some reasonable points that as a newbie are very valid; his style and skill level means that by stopping, it reduces the gap between him and the better riders and makes it all viable. Were we to deny him that option, we consign him to the bottom of the results sheet and destroy his enthusiasm; who's to say that as he improves he'll still want to stop? What we don't want though, is the reqirement to be able to trick ride in order to attempt a section. I would like to think I can attack the hard route in the sarf midlands on those trials where it is not a centre championship trial. Were it to be a hopping fest, I'll buy a twinshock and stick to the easy route. I'm OK with that, but many of us are a bit more aspirational! I still think if trials are set out with care and for the majority, and marked fairly then no-stop or stop permitted doesn't make a huge difference. Good discussion though. Graham

Andy, I think that you may view things this way because the trials you have seen are laid out with the current rules in mind. A few months ago I rode a Nene Valley trial at Glendon quarry. It wasn't too difficult and was won (for the clubbies) in single figures. However, every section was not only possible non-stop, but more likely to succeed if ridden this way. What's more, there was some lovely, big, long climbs that still required you to put your wheels in the right place, but felt GOOD when you had cleaned them! Isn't that what it's all about? If the sections had been set to select a winner from the 'stoppers and hoppers', then this land would most likely have been ignored. Don't get me wrong, I can balance and like to gather my thoughts too, but if the sections are laid out for no-stop, then there's no reason why there cannot be 15' of flat ground to allow you to gird your loins before a challenge, so you can keep moving. That's exactly how this trial was laid out, and trust me, it worked for everyone! There is another point here though, and it is the point Jimmyl made; regardless of the rules, someone has to manage the event. It needs to be laid out sensibly and rules sensibly and fairly enforced. Back to Mettise's point; the young guy who insists on riding the section after he's fived it really should be asked to vacate the section! It's hardly sporting, and I usually suggest to riders that have fived that they get out as quickly as possible. Usually, a bit of help does the job (particularly if when pulling a bike out, you pull it out of section!); it's courteous and sporting, and that's what trials is all about in my small world!

Interesting topic. I agree with a lot of what you say tricky dicky. I'm a mid-40s clubman and don't hop. I have no desire to and am grateful that it is so far not necesary in the trials I ride in the south midlands centre. Were we to ride no-stop, I would be quite happy. Sure, I'm going to lose some arguable 5s as I often take tight turns very slowly, but I would welcome the stance that the sections are laid out to ride in one movement. What is nice though is that the sport at my level didn't change in the 13 years I was away from it. And so it shouldn't or where can guys with immaculate old 70s and earlier bikes compete without having patronising sections? But I'm a clubbie and so this shouldn't matter so much. HOWEVER, and this is a biggie, I brought two potential newbies along to a trial on friday and the overriding impression they took away was 'how do you do all that trick riding?'. Is this the question we want to leave in newbies minds? Particularly as it has little to do with stopping (as TD pointed out, many of these riders were 're-aligning' whilst on the move). What we would hope is that a good, flowing ride that shows skillful bike handling become aspirational. I also would love to see the current crop of top level riders attacking some of the WTC sections that the likes of Saunders and Tarres had to deal with in the 80s; it was much better to watch. Without spectators and interest, our sport cannot thrive. Graham

Coincidence that Lee, me and my mate often have dissagreements between sections too. Sometimes we actually ride the bikes too... Get yourself well soon Andy Graham

Is there any need for that? It's only a discussion...

Yep, those are my own rules! I didn't know it was a roller big end. I already asked if the noise is affected by the clutch operation and it isn't. The other thing someone on here found is the kickstart idler gear can be loose on the shaft if the clip has come off. This will make a fair knock but will stop of the bike is leant to the left. It is, however, very cheap and the cycle parts are all good. If the engine can be fixed for

Hi Reian and welcome! It sounds to me like the clutch needs bleeding. It may well be that this is preventing it dissengaging fully. If you do a search on here (don't use the live chat box like everyone else on here has done at least once!) there'll be some details how to do this. It's free, so I'd try that first. Regarding the grabbiness, my mate's 98 bike is very grabby (the worse bit about the bike, in my opinion) and I know he did a bit of digging and found it was a common complaint. Oil choice makes a difference, but I think 315s seem to be a bit like that. Again, do a search on here and I'm sure you'll get a picture forming. Graham

Hi All, I have been offered an SY250 cheap. It has a knock which the owner suspects may be the clutch basket. I haven't heard it, but my finger of suspicion points at the bottom end, probably the big end. Does anyone know: 1. Is it possible to re-shell the big end as a home mechanic job? 2. Approximately how much will the parts be? 3. Does anyone know approximately how much a dealer will charge to repair a duff bottom end. I'll ask some dealer's too, but any rough pointers will help me decide if this is worth going ahead with. Many Thanks Graham

Thanks Dan, that really clears it up! I hadn't grasped that the primary flywheel equated to additional weight. Obvious really... I personally find an over-soft bike difficult to ride on anything that isn't a flowing section. That's fine for most clubman trials in the south midlands region of the UK, but I find that (as you said) clutching to release the full moo at the transition of a climb is more likely to see me lose grip. You can 'wind on quickly' with a slightly snappier bike that just seems to load the rear tyre better. At least for me it does! I remember borrowing a really soft TY mono years ago when I used to ride a 260 Zero and completely failing to lift the front over a 3ft log across a descent. I got over it. Shame the bike didn't... Graham

Dan, sorry for being a bit thick, but can you clarify the business about the primary side flywheel? What does this mean in real terms? The reason I ask is because I have a 2001 250 and am thinking about a replacement to something a bit newer. I've had rear brake issues so if I stick with Beta I want to go for the later 2-pot rear (I believe that's 2005 onward?). I'm pretty happy with the delivery of my 250; it doesn't seem too soft or too agressive. I don't really know the relative power charachteristics of the 250 vs the 270 but usually like the bigger engine's grunt and ability to 'plonk' and find grip as long as they are not too snappy. How do the bikes with the various flywheel positions/ years/ capacities compare in respect to power delivery? Thanks Graham

Good thread this, and lots of valid points of view. I'm happy to report that in the Sarf Midlands, it looks about right from where I sit. I have no problem with being challenged on my clubman trials, but want it to be fair and at a level I expect. If I HAD to hop and bounce, I don't think I'd bother. It means learning a new way of riding that I simply don't want to and have no time or opportunity to practice. Am I a luddite? Is it progress to expect us all to learn this? Maybe, and our terrain doesn't allow the most flowing of natural challenges so I can understand the CofC having to mark tight sections. I think the key is the word 'Majority'. If you have 3 clubmen finishing clean every time, it may be they would be better off in the 50/50 class. If everyone is clean, the trial is a touch easy! To me, the definition of a clubman route is one where it can be ridden no stop (if you wish) WITHOUT the need for trick cycling, there is minimal risk of injury and there most riders will lose 10-80 marks or thereabouts. That's lovely in my book. Graham

After 3 weeks of trying, I finally have a working back brake on my 2001 Rev3! Praise be! What did I do? What DIDN'T I do more like! In the end, I took a deep breath and devoted a lot of patient time to it: Carefully strip, clean and rebuild the system so you are certain there are no leaks. Fill from the bleed nipple upwards keeping the caliper low and the master cylinder high. Turn the master cylinder over so the reservior fill is the highest point. Do this with a big syringe and use at least 2 syringe's full. One point; when filling make sure you have the syringe pointing downwards and you have let any air in it rise to the top. Otherwise you fill the system with bubbles! I released the rear shock top mount so I could route the caliper out of the frame next to the reservior. That way I could tie the caliper up high and minimise the natural 'n' bend that the hose follows as it exits the master cylinder (this is an airlock point). Take the bashplate off; you get a bit more pedal movement (Some suggested operating the master cylinder with a rod, but I found this bl00dy hard as I couldn't hold it in AND release the bleed nipple) Make sure there is a little freeplay between the operating rod and the master cylinder so the master cylinder can refill. Bleed as normal. Don't get frustrated and mash the pedal, but do do it fairly quickly (get a rhythm going '1-2 release, 1-2 release' etc). If you do this too slowly, any traped air in areas where there is a bend will not be purged, but will return to the highest point. Be patient. I had to chug half a litre of fluid through before I was certain the air was out (and I still think there's a couple of tiny bubbles left!) Thanks to everyone who offered advice. Copemech's advice of opening the banjo bolt at the top of the master cylinder (with this point highest) a tiny amount to purge the air worked to a degree too, but I was fed up with being covered in brake fluid by then! It defies logic as to why this brake is so prone to bleeding issues; I'll be dead reluctant to strip it again! Graham

You've clearly been bitten! I think Ebay has to be viewed the same way as any other secondhand sale forum; the advert is a commercial come-on; from there you have to satisfy yourself that the buyer is the sort of person you want to deal with and the goods are what you want to buy. Myself, if I get doubts I simply leave it. Just be careful and ask questions that establish the seller's provenance. Once you're happy, try and go and deal face to face. It's worked for me on many things! Graham

Thanks Gareth, that's really helpful Graham

Thanks Gareth, How does it compare to the Beta, riding-wise? I have a 2001 Rev3 250 which has a fairly tame delivery (although nothing like as soft as my mate's 2004 bike). I can ride with a reasonably snappy delivery without issues, but don't like it dead soft. I got a gentle right hand so having the bike too soft sort of fights against my natural style. I used to ride a 260 zero back in the day and found it perfect for me. How are the brakes? I've had a fair few problems with mine but have never felt the back brake was particularly good. Thanks again Graham

Godzilla, I wish you'd say what you mean...

That's very good of you Dabster, thank you. However, I guess I should have laid out my budget first! I'm looking to spend somewhere south of

Hi All, I think I need a change of bikes. My Rev3 is OK, but getting on a bit and to be honest, I've had enough of trying to get decent, non-binding brakes. I know all the potential Beta issues, but if I change manufacturers, what are the known issues with the others? I accept that each make has strong and weak areas, but don't want to inherit a particular problem that I can't happily deal with. So, Scorpa, Sherco and GasGas. What are their specific weak areas? Thanks all Graham

I'd pay money for a brake that doesn't bind, locks easily and has no free play! Stork, I have blown everything out but haven't actually taken the reservior feed off to check for debris. I'm not sure I can face another day at it today but may look at this when my loins are sufficiently girded. Graham

Hi Stork, Tried this too! I think I'm going to have to concede defeat and get a bike shop to do it. I've spent time every day now since last saturday on this and whilst I got some pressure today, it's not enough to lock the wheel. Is this just a Beta issue? I've NEVER had problems like this with road bikes; as most trials bikes use AJP gear, do the others suffer? I will chop the Rev3 in against any bike with working brakes! I can't face this again some time in the future. Graham

Further to my rather smug "I've cracked it" report earlier, I haven't! I've just put another set of seals and pistons in the rear caliper and bled it out again and there's still no sign of any pressure. I've now worked on this every day since last saturday! I've been very patient and avoided pumping the pedal and emulsifying the fluid, but I'm absolutely at a loss as to why I can't generate any significant brake pressure. I've read all the various posts on here, so I guess there's not a great deal anyone can put forward. Anyone want to buy a 2001 Rev3? Excellent nick, needs slight attention to the back brake... Graham

Yep, concur. The actual dimensions are 13mm for 4 pot and 9.5mm for 2 pot. BTW, I mis-ordered the 2 pot type. It's sat on me desk here. Anyone send me a tenner, it's theirs... Graham

What he said! Yes, that's how I understand it... Graham

I thought I'd stick an update on my Beta rear brake woes for anyone that is presently retrieving all the spanners they have hurled around the garage in frustration whilst trying to achieve decent braking! I stripped and cleaned my 4-pot Rev3 rear brake caliper and replaced the pistons and seals. This was due to the rear brake binding. I had taken all the usual precaustions (ensuring sufficient play in the operating rod, keeping them clean etc) but knew that I had to do a strip and service at some point. This led to the usual frustrations trying to get the system to work again. I subsequently replaced all the master cylinder seals but still could not get the pedal to firm up. Here's one thing I discovered; despite GREAT care assembling the brakes, it is extremely easy to nip the seal when pushing the pistons home. I did this by hand and don't have a vice-like grip. I didn't feel any untoward resistance but still nipped 2 of the seals. After days of trying to get pressure, dissassembly revealed damage to 2 seals and as a result, pressure could escape. I'm pretty hopeful I've found the problem now, but if you are having issues, here's my recommended advice: If you service, replace the master cylinder seals as well. It's only a little more than an ayrton and saves loads of doubt. Take the caliper off and tie it to the rafters or somesuch so it is as high as you can get it. the air rises pretty well if you do this. Take extreme care sliding the pistons home. Use plenty of clean brake fluid and really take your time. Keep plenty of free-play in the push rod. If you don't the transfer port remains covered and you won't get a full charge of fresh fluid when you bleed. Keep with it people, unnecessarily tricky, but you'll get there in the end. Graham

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the TY175 have reed valve induction? If so, the reeds are there to prevent the charge re-entering the carb. As such, the boost bottle will be redundant. Just a thought...