Acu Classic Championship

[nigel dabster]

So

[nigel dabster]

A QUESTION FOR THE PORT TALBOT PONTIFICATOR , ME THINKS !

You are a numpty, we need John Collins on board and if you would like to take on some of his work then step up fella.

[nigel dabster]

Seems to me that in general the series is a complete shambles and doesnt properly cater for any one of the numerous classes that have been introduced over the years, seemingly to boost flagging entries!

So tell everyone how many events have you been to this year or last?

Edited March 26, 2008 by Nigel Dabster

[Guest majestyman340]

Please don't do that john I am sure either Atom or Andy will be along soon to delete the post and or ban paoli I have reported the posts above.

Sadly there are some good points which have been made and it could be spoiled.

I dont agree with the use of derogatory terms, but in point of fact the "traditional" series is a complete shambles and a joke in comparision to classic champsionship series in the rest of Europe, which do actually cater for riders of proper classic bikes, and appear to be extremely well supported and popular with no need whatsoever to include various modern bike classes to boost flagging numbers.................................

[woody]

I dont agree with the use of derogatory terms, but in point of fact the "traditional" series is a complete shambles and a joke in comparision to classic champsionship series in the rest of Europe, which do actually cater for riders of proper classic bikes, and appear to be extremely well supported and popular with no need whatsoever to include various modern bike classes to boost flagging numbers.................................

Where do you get this opinion from????

How many traditional/classic events have you ridden over the last few years?

How many events have you ridden on the continent to compare them to?

The traditional/classic series, in most events, has sections that are ideal for classics. The only events that aren't up to scratch for a National championship in my view and the view of others, are the sidecar rounds where the sections don't give enough of a challenge to the solos. Not all of them, but most. That's another issue.

Try organising a trial to National standard (ie; proper sections, not riding around some twigs in the ground) purely for twinshocks and Pre65, even have 2 routes to widen the audience, so that all abilities are catered for. See how many entries you get. 40 - 45 maybe, if you're lucky. Why? - who knows but until riders actually support the series by entering on twinshock and Pre65 bikes it can never again stand on its own as a series for those bikes only. Seems to me these days that people want to own twinshocks so they can say they have them, or treat them as some kind of investment, rather than ride the bloody things.

It's up to riders to support the series. The problem is there is a lot of crap spouted on here from people who don't even ride the events, saying it is too hard and that the sections are put on for modern bikes - RUBBISH. The problem is, other people will read this, believe it and stay away. Yes, the sections are difficult technically and so they should be as it is a National championship, but they are NOT modern bike sections. As I've said many times before, look back over the results and see that the best twinshock has outperformed the best modern bike more than once. I rode a bog standard 1968 type 49 Bultaco at the last 2 rounds and although it was hard work on some sections, it was capable of cleaning every section in that trial - it was my fault it didn't. So how can they be called modern bike sections!!?? I can assure you that that bike wouldn't get more than a few feet into a proper modern bike section before failing it.

If we're talking about a way forward for this series, I still believe the best format is to use events just for solos only, no sidecar rounds, go with two routes unless the venue will support one route like Lancs County and Bootle. Easier route is non-championship and will alow riders who find the championship route too hard to still have a ride out on their old bikes. Continue with the classes the way they are at the moment but if there is an increasing number of pre65/twinshock entries to the point where the events become over-subscribed, give preference to those classes. Eventually, if the numbers increase to a level that allows it, the series can once again be dedicated to those bikes only.

What the series doesn't need is ill-informed comments as to how crap it is from people who don't ride in it, or comparisons to events on the continent, again, from people who have ridden neither. People read it, believe it, form the wrong opinion and stay away. Not really very constructive.

[Andy]

John is a valuable asset to these Forums who is under no obligation to post the lengthy explanations he does. I know many appreciate his presence here. Mr. Paioli was asked to apologise to John - not only for this attack, but also previous ones which have been noted and to desist from any further derogatory comments. Instead he has stated that he no longer wishes to partake of these Forums.

As you were, gentlemen.

[frenchie]

As an expat living in France I can only gauge the standard of classic trials from comments on here and those reports in the press that I subscribe to. However the state of classic trials in France that is referred to is something I have a informed opinion as I ride quite frequently.

I would suggest baring one or two trials in France and Spain, English trials are head and shoulders above what I ride here. Granted the social side of the trial is better as usually is the weather , but the quality of the sections, considering the land avaliable, is often quite poor. The trials are usually won on very little marks lost and I often leave wondering if a 600 700 mile round trip was actually worth while.

I was sent a list of results from the Phil King trial, before France I helped and marked the sections as well as riding for many years ,and in my opinion and having spoken to many friends from this centre the trial seemed to be spot on.

In Spain they have more classes so yes you will not compete on a 1972 Montesa against a 1982 Majesty ( with Mono Forks ) , however these big trials are run on a business basis with entry fees for a two day trial up to 100 euros .

In France its usually two routes hard and easy Pre 65, pre 80, post 80.

I think you are extremely lucky to have great trials on your doorstep or within easy reach and long may it continue with the aid of people willing to take the time to do the work involved and its a thankless task getting harder.......

Rule Britannia

[old trials fanatic]

My quick two pennorth.

I would much sooner read John Collins well crafted and excellently worded contributions than any "ya boo sucks" postings from whichever contributor so John youre old enough, wise enough and broad shouldered enough to shrug it all off. I might not always agree totally with you but i feel you are open to suggestion and it's refreshing to have a contact within the ACU who listens and enters into "debate".

I dont ride the Classic Championship so will not comment other than to say if you dont like the status quo then enter yourself then the numbers will swell and justify a change. The numbers are what matter at the end of the day and wether a Club Trial or a National if the numbers are not sufficient then you either make them up from wherever you can or you say "sod it" and dont bother. Me i'd sooner have an event to ride in than none at all. You could always if you dont want to get your P & J dirty help to organise the event then you could be the one that all the flack is leveled at?

The situation might not be brilliant or to everybodys taste but it's all we got at the moment and at least it's on. If events die out due to too few entries not justifying the effort or because they are run at a loss then you will all moan but it will be too late then wont it?

Same thing applies to the ACU it aint the best for everybody but it's all we got and the income from Trials aint going to pay for any other governing body and believe me they do a lot more than just take a percentage and drink tea. A lot more.

So as long as the preference in the event is ALWAYS given to Pre65 and Twinshock entries and the course is laid out for them too and i fully believe Woodies comments on this subject, as i know he has ridden more events than most on here, then we have something to build on and take forward at least.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Old trials fanatic

[pitley]

Can anyone tell me why does this series has to be mixed with the sidecar champs? I know its only 3 rounds this year with sidecars but surely the Trad champs can support it self over 10 rounds?

Judging by the posts in Previews and Reviews on the last two rounds in Cumbria, they had it spot on with single route and no chairs.

I am sure there would be a few clubs out there willing to run a round of the Traditional champs on a single route basis, i know ours would.

The Novogar works on single route so why cant the Traditonal?

If the terrain is good and the sections marked out sensible then theres no reason for the riders to complain.

Just a thought..

Sorry to poke the stick in the hornets nest.

Reckon i will stick to riding trials and running them..

Tarabit.

Edited March 26, 2008 by pitley

[Guest majestyman340]

Where do you get this opinion from????

How many traditional/classic events have you ridden over the last few years?

How many events have you ridden on the continent to compare them to?

The traditional/classic series, in most events, has sections that are ideal for classics. The only events that aren't up to scratch for a National championship in my view and the view of others, are the sidecar rounds where the sections don't give enough of a challenge to the solos. Not all of them, but most. That's another issue.

Try organising a trial to National standard (ie; proper sections, not riding around some twigs in the ground) purely for twinshocks and Pre65, even have 2 routes to widen the audience, so that all abilities are catered for. See how many entries you get. 40 - 45 maybe, if you're lucky. Why? - who knows but until riders actually support the series by entering on twinshock and Pre65 bikes it can never again stand on its own as a series for those bikes only. Seems to me these days that people want to own twinshocks so they can say they have them, or treat them as some kind of investment, rather than ride the bloody things.

It's up to riders to support the series. The problem is there is a lot of crap spouted on here from people who don't even ride the events, saying it is too hard and that the sections are put on for modern bikes - RUBBISH. The problem is, other people will read this, believe it and stay away. Yes, the sections are difficult technically and so they should be as it is a National championship, but they are NOT modern bike sections. As I've said many times before, look back over the results and see that the best twinshock has outperformed the best modern bike more than once. I rode a bog standard 1968 type 49 Bultaco at the last 2 rounds and although it was hard work on some sections, it was capable of cleaning every section in that trial - it was my fault it didn't. So how can they be called modern bike sections!!?? I can assure you that that bike wouldn't get more than a few feet into a proper modern bike section before failing it.

If we're talking about a way forward for this series, I still believe the best format is to use events just for solos only, no sidecar rounds, go with two routes unless the venue will support one route like Lancs County and Bootle. Easier route is non-championship and will alow riders who find the championship route too hard to still have a ride out on their old bikes. Continue with the classes the way they are at the moment but if there is an increasing number of pre65/twinshock entries to the point where the events become over-subscribed, give preference to those classes. Eventually, if the numbers increase to a level that allows it, the series can once again be dedicated to those bikes only.

What the series doesn't need is ill-informed comments as to how crap it is from people who don't ride in it, or comparisons to events on the continent, again, from people who have ridden neither. People read it, believe it, form the wrong opinion and stay away. Not really very constructive.

The fact that very few riders of twinshock machines now support the series, and numerous modern bike classes have been introduced to allow it to continue, does I think say it all dont you think?

[Guest majestyman340]

John is a valuable asset to these Forums who is under no obligation to post the lengthy explanations he does. I know many appreciate his presence here. Mr. Paioli was asked to apologise to John - not only for this attack, but also previous ones which have been noted and to desist from any further derogatory comments. Instead he has stated that he no longer wishes to partake of these Forums.

As you were, gentlemen.

Not sure who John Collins might be, but looking through his previous posts it seems he is a senior ACU official of some kind, so surely a sense of humour and the ability to respond to derogatory remarks may be very useful attributes?

[Guest majestyman340]

Not knowing who John Collins was and noticing that he seems someone that is well respected on this forums, I have taken the trouble to read through some of his past posts, and feel it is of great help to the sport to have a spokesman who is obviously no stranger to public relations, and able to answer questions in a considered helpful and forthright manner, with no recourse to the questionable behaviour of his detractors!

[woody]

The fact that very few riders of twinshock machines now support the series, and numerous modern bike classes have been introduced to allow it to continue, does I think say it all dont you think?

As usual, you've not answered any questions asked of you and diregarded what has been said.

The modern bikes are in because there aren't enough Pre65/twinshock bikes - we all know that. There may be numerous reasons for this but one reason it ISN'T is because the sections are put on for modern bikes. THEY AREN'T.

I've got a good idea. Get your 340 Majesty out, if you've got one, go and enter some Sammy Miller rounds and Traditional rounds and make your own mind up after experiencing them for yourself instead of spouting ill-informed drivel.

[Guest majestyman340]

As usual, you've not answered any questions asked of you and diregarded what has been said.

The modern bikes are in because there aren't enough Pre65/twinshock bikes - we all know that. There may be numerous reasons for this but one reason it ISN'T is because the sections are put on for modern bikes. THEY AREN'T.

I've got a good idea. Get your 340 Majesty out, if you've got one, go and enter some Sammy Miller rounds and Traditional rounds and make your own mind up after experiencing them for yourself instead of spouting ill-informed drivel.

"Res ipsa loquitur" as they say.......................the facts speak for themselves! I dont need to smash myself and my bike to pieces on the modern type sections common in the "traditional" series, to know there are very good reasons for such low levels of support from riders of older machinery!

[woody]

"Res ipsa loquitur" as they say.......................the facts speak for themselves! I dont need to smash myself and my bike to pieces on the modern type sections common in the "traditional" series, to know there are very good reasons for such low levels of support from riders of older machinery!

What facts are you on about - Name the events YOU'VE competed in that have modern type sections