ishy Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) How are you going to get 300 riders to complete the course without floodlights?The logistics just wont work. I understand how the people feel who have not got an entry but so far only Woodie has come up with something aproaching a logical arguement about elegibility and not just abuse. Think you missed the point, starting two a minute at different locations allows more riders to complete the course in less time than it would starting them all at section one, how long does it take the first rider to get to section 16 on a 25 mile course, that is about the time you increase the rider/ minute by and still get done in the alloted time. Next year you will have the same argument, because folk are not looking at solutions to the real problem, first define the problem, the sour grapes about bikes is coming about because people are getting the entries returned. Why you ride the old boat anchors I'll never know, mebe it just gives old codgers summat to moan about. Edited January 22, 2008 by Ishy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I've got this strange hunch that this weeks collumn will have a lot of viewings but few responses Ahem.. I think you got that prediction wrong this time OTF? Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosey Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Crickey so there are around 300 entrants for this event. When all is said and done if a cheater wins on a highy modded bike or a 'credit card' special (a brand new pre '65 courtesy of Visa) then its crap but most genuine guys know this. I see the 300 rider entry more as an indication of the chaps who want to have a good time on their old bikes... better than just looking at them and polishing them. Lets face it cheaters know who they are and what they are hiding or trying to hide. I can't imagine how you could get the club to police it and why should they... Better that the press say " Oh and the ahem 'winner' on a bike that had a Triumph badge but did not resemble anything pre '65 was Mr X' If the club asks questions and the rider answers them fraudulently they ought to ban the rider the next year (or do they do this anyway)... still its mega hard to police even with keen willing volounteers! You see the cheating even on post '65 twinshocks its cringeworthily pathetic in most cases... I can understand why genuine riders get p155ed off! Could the ones who don't get a entry but are obviously keen to go and watch help at scutineering... armed with all their knowledge and kick all the cheat bikes into a non-competitive class and then warn the rider for the next year and ban if they re-offend Well its all hard to police, but I hope the entrants take the trial in the real spirit and enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) How are you going to get 300 riders to complete the course without floodlights? I think Ishy is suggesting a split start, 150 riders set off from section 1 whilst the other 150 set off from section 16. Would it work? I've no idea but it sounds sensible enough... Oops, I replied and then realised that there was another page to read up on Edited January 22, 2008 by Kinell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 two issues for me Bikes... should british bikes not be the same silouette and manufactured with parts available at the time with the onus of proof been with the rider ( sometime ago i drove in a british rally championship where every car had to be fore court standard we all had copies of every brochure and period photos to prove eligibility if and often challenged) riders.. as the worlds premier P65 trial the organisers have some responsibility to the other 1000 events each year which in the main face dwindling entries, so why not have to qualify by competing in X events the previous year sure this might exclude rappers but would mean that joe ''unlikely to get an entry cos i have no friends but i do turn out every sunday on my old bantam'' might get a ride and it would boost club trials entries.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I agree with Rosey; - "I see the 300 rider entry more as an indication of the chaps who want to have a good time on their old bikes better than just looking at them and polishing them....- Does anyone knows without checking the list who was the 25th. or the 150th. in the 2007 Pre-65??? What makes the difference being one or the other?? Shoud a better bike take you from 150th to 25th??? I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paioli Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 No Rappers can answer for himself! Big John thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottt Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Re the weight idea which is i suppose as valid as any other. Would that be wet i.e complete with liquids? So how much "liquid" would you allow? As for weight where is the weight allowed to be distributed? Can the weight be movable i.e. transferable centre of gravity from front to rear and also along a vertical plane. May be an advantage when encountering a muddy section? Formula 1 and other forms of motorsport have tried the weight idea and where theres a will theres a way? How much is Helium anyway? How about the weight of bike and rider combined? Always a gripe of mine when i fly as why should a big fat bas***d have the same luggage allowance as someone slimmer? OK different topic Good debate though innit? I do have a problem with this "cheat" accusation flying around. Now it may be me and some may say i have a "cheat" bike but i do feel quite insulted by the accusation. My bike i feel is no more a cheat than any other bike less than some if "cheat" is the correct term which i truly doubt. I have always and always will be total open and honest about the bikes construction which i feel is only in line with the developments made by some at the time, the frame angles in CDS tubing BTW are copied from Mick Andrews frame, the engine is all std Villiers. Ok it has a pvl ignition which was fitted for reliability reasons and apart from a low 2nd gear is bog std. If you pay for a rebuild you can check. OK the hubs are alloy copies of a Tiger Cub and even use std tiger cub shoes. Rims are alloy but they were available at the time anyway. Bars are Renthal but arent everybodys? tyres are IRC but still tubed. I AM NOT A CHEAT and never have been. Look up the definition of cheat in the OE and neither i nor my bike are one. If i am guilty of anything then i am guilty of developing my bike along the lines of developments that would have been made at some point anyway. Dont deceive yourselves people the bike can be a trick as you like but it wont get you through the section clean on its own. It seems to have missed quite a few peoples attention but the rider has to pilot the thing. A top rider on a bike less modified will always beat a crap rider on the most tricked up bike in the World. How many of you have ever ridden one of these so called "Cheat" bikes ? How many sections did you clean on it that you couldnt on your own bike? Then watch the "name" clean sections on your bike you couldnt even get through? I am regularly beaten in local events by riders on std Greeves with the addition of Ceriani forks being the only mod, which i think are also banned in the Scottish may be wrong about that must check, but you know what i dont feel it's the bike thats beaten me. I KNOW i have been beaten by a better rider, grrr you know who you are Pete and i dont have an issue with that. So please think twice about accusing people of cheating. Perhaps it says more about the accuser than the accused. Just goes to show that in motorsport as soon as the rule book comes out the truly competitive will read every word to find the competitive advantage. If i'm honest i LOVE the engineering of Pre65 which was the main reason i returned to Trials after a layoff from "modern" bikes. If TY250 monos were ever modern Edited January 22, 2008 by Old trials fanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Rappers got the topic tital right [Arguing about the pre 65] bout time we had a bit of life around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiley Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 When will the day come when there is a fair ballot for entries, I was told last year by a well known committee member that certain people get in because of what they put back into our sport , That's a bit of a joke really as i know many who ride year in year out and do nothing only turn up ride then go home until the next trial . I personally have rode the scottish several times and in the end thought i was aswell one of the chosen few but alas no. I did find however that if you approached a committee member with any amount of constructive comment then the door was slammed in your face guilt obviously getting the better of them, Anyway no point in harping on as i and many others will just have to wait and see if we get through next years ballot of fifty or sixty riders. Yours in sport not so smiley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 YEP i'm in....................and OTF if ' its to hot in the kitchen ' get out.................cos I think the chip pan is about to catch fire................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehill Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 You may be surprised but road based trials are limited to 180 competitors by 'The motor vehicles (competitions & trials) (Scotland) regulations 1976 yaaaaawn.............. Yes there is legislation telling us how to run our events they also state that the maximum number of riders dispatched can be 2 a minute so their hands are tied thankfully the same regulations gives particular exemption to the SSDT ...yes the SSDT is written into UK law !!! Legal lesson over ........................................................ what about making it a pre'60 trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 The problem for me is the 'eligibility criteria' - what you can and can't do to the bike and whether it has any bearing on your chances of gaining entry in future years if someone doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiley Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I wonder if certain members of the committee are browsing these comments, probably and having a good laugh about it all because they will all fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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