copemech Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I suppose that in theory what you are saying may sound correct, but in reality it is not. The more oil you keep putting in the gas the richer the mixture...to the point that the plug will foul and the engine will die. Just because it dies does not mean it is rich with fuel, it is choked with oil! It there is insufficient fuel remaining in the ratio, the mixture will not ignite! It is NOT a diesel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motojojo Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 80 to 1 any more oil than that, your old smoking bike is giving me a headache, and just pick a good oil that you can buy all the time and stick with it there all about the same. I have used Honda hr2 for 20years its a good non-carbing oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 With the 100:1 or 50:1 oil mixture issue, we are talking about two distinct and seperate issues- More oil in the fuel means that the ratio of petrol to air does become slightly weaker but only by a tiny percentage. More oil in the fuel also means that the ratio of petrol to oil is obviously richer and in this case, it is a big percentage. I think people are getting the two confused. Now what is the best???....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgshannon Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Just because it dies does not mean it is rich with fuel, it is choked with oil! It there is insufficient fuel remaining in the ratio, the mixture will not ignite! It is NOT a diesel! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgshannon Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 More oil in the fuel also means that the ratio of petrol to oil is obviously richer Not "obvious" to me. But, maybe there is only a terminology problem getting in the way here. The terms "Lean" and "Rich" are relative to describing the fuel content only, and not the other components of the charge, whether air, or oil. In terms of a carb, the word "Rich" means too much fuel, while the word "Lean" means too little fuel. So, "More oil in the fuel" means less fuel in the mixture, for each charge passing through the carb, and into the engine. "Less fuel" is leaner, and not "obviously richer". More oil in the fuel also means that the ratio of petrol to oil is obviously richer and in this case, it is a big percentage. Even IF we allow the terms Lean and Rich to describe the ratio of "petrol to oil", having "More oil in the fuel" means less fuel, so it would still be leaner, and not "obviously richer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjbiker Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Just to satisfy my curiousity..... Do any of the boffins out there know what percentage air there is in the final 'mix' as opposed to fuel/oil ? i.e. when the piston has pulled the vapour mix into the barrel (BDC) how much of that capacity is air ? (For arguement and easiness lets say it's a 100cc engine) Just thinking in the great scale of things, once it's all mixed up and in there the actual amount of oil must be fairly negligible wether its 50:1 or 100:1 or somewhere in between ? I used to run at 50:1 before the last forum like this. I now run 60:1. Perhaps I'll go 70:1 after this ?????? GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmck Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Let Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. 80 to 1 good fully synthetic unless you get a new bike every year, then go 100 to 1. Ipone / Amsoil Sabre 100:1 / Honda something or other fully synthetic, all good IMHO. Ipone smells like strawberries I SAID STRAWBERRIES NOT BANANAS! Honda oil is a nice blue color so you know you've got your gas mixed and not straight. (could be a plus if your like me!) Amsoil is very good, probably the best of the lot. Thanks for allowing me to put in my $.02 but with todays exchange rate it's worth just a little more than a cow pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil king Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Let Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmck Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Well first off you base your argument on a false statement a 20:1 is not richer than 100:1 it's leaner PERIOD. Then the rest of the is argument makes no sense whatsoever even if you first statement was in fact true. You disprove yourself with this statement " When two-stroke oil is added to the fuel, the fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motojojo Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 all this is amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 You guys can argue about this all day long, but the fact is that if you keep adding oil to fuel, eventually all you have is oil and no fuel, which leans the resulting fuel/ air ratio, richens the fuel/ oil ratio and things basically do not work! It has been proven that fuel/oil ratios of 80:1 using high quality modern synthetic or simi- synthetic oils are very safe in modern water cooled 2-strokes, even at the highest levels ov competition. For your average punter, ratios of 90 or 100:1 have been regularly used with no problems. Less oil, less smoke, less loading up and fouling of plugs and such, bend over and extract head from butt! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil king Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I'm not upset. And not attacking you I just find your statements completely ludicrous. Look at the ratios and what they represent: 20:1 states that there is 20 times the amount of fuel to the amount of oil, 100:1 states that there is 100 times the amount of fuel to the amount of oil. It's obvious that 100 times is a richer fuel mixture that 20 times. I think what may be confusing you is the way a plug looks kind of like it's running rich because it doesn't clean itself as well with a low fuel ratio.? And yes the rest of your post is self explanitory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Amsoil synt. @ 80:1 , 125octane ave gas == red fuel so I know its mixed , Long shelf life of fuel ,(I don't get to ride enough ) small airport 2miles away ( handy ) = And my 25 year old bike starts first kick after sitting for a month or longer , smokes just abit and gives me no fouling or fuel issues at all !!! and my kids ty80 likes it too ! Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmck Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Mr. King, perhaps I can explain this to you in a different manner. You said: 20:1 states that there is 20 times the amount of fuel to the amount of oil, 100:1 states that there is 100 times the amount of fuel to the amount of oil. That part of your statement is correct. 100:1 means that there is more fuel in relation to the oil than there is in a 20:1 mixture. What may be confusing you though, is the more fuel the engine sees in relation to the amount of oil, (100:1) the leaner the engine runs. The inverse is true as well: the more oil that the engine sees in relation to the amount of fuel, (20:1) the richer the engine runs. Please do not confuse all of this with the engines air/fuel ratio, where the opposite is true: the more fuel the engine sees in relation to the amount of air, the richer the engine runs. This applies to two-stroke as well as four-stoke engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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