Week 67 - Fuel For Thought

[Andy]

I've been asking around the Scooby community as some of them are into their rallying, hill climbs etc.

You must speak to the HSE and find out the position and requirements.

You should speak to the local PLA (Petrol Licensing Authority) which is Highland Council

I've also been pointed to these guys http://www.atolfuel.co.uk/ - okay they're a commercial organisation so probably big bucks, but they might be able to advise.

[baldilocks]

The number of fuel stops on the moors can be significantly reduced. Its been great to have the army out there but its not as essential as some people might think.

I rode a JCM in the 87 SSDT which had a fuel capacity of 2.9 litres, the Fantic 241/301 of that era had about the same. During the week we did the Corrieyarack (can anyone except big John spell that ?) Pass which was 21 miles, from Spean Bridge to Kinlochleven via bradieleg which must be around 20 miles and across clunes forest. I managed to get across all of these on the standard tank without topping up. We did Fersit to Kinlochleven which was 27 miles but I did have to use 250 ml I was carrying. We now use a different route around fersit and it may be possible to get a van onto the fast track before the last stretch of moor ?

The point I'm trying to make is that the Sherco has a 3 litre tank, Shirty already sells a 4 litre tank for the Gas Gas, the Beta and Scorpa I think hold about 3 litres and the fuel consumption of the Mont is very good although it has a smaller tank.

So we dont need to be thinking in terms of a fleet of landrovers to get out to the middle of nowhere to refuel the bikes, we can make the fuelstops by the roadside as they used to be which gets rid of one difficult element.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Baldilocks

[thespikeyone]

I know of one bloke on a mont who ran out of fuel at least three times during the week, and my brother on a scorpa ran out once too. which says to me the number of fuel stops is at a minimum already.

[kinell]

I know of one bloke on a mont who ran out of fuel at least three times during the week, and my brother on a scorpa ran out once too. which says to me the number of fuel stops is at a minimum already.

Sods Law

Carry a small bottle of fuel all week and you will never run out

[baldilocks]

I know of one bloke on a mont who ran out of fuel at least three times during the week, and my brother on a scorpa ran out once too. which says to me the number of fuel stops is at a minimum already.

where did they run out ?

the mont tank is quite small so they may need a bigger tank like gas gas do ?

rode a scorpa myself in 2006 and never ran out, was the bike left on its side somewhere ?

[overthehill]

all these are great ideas and very relevant - the legal side is a minefield - petrol (unlike diesel) is classified under the dangerous goods regulations and requires very stringent transport and storage, trained drivers and all manner of other licenses and controls.

We are looking at doing it ourselves however please remember that we are just a bunch of enthusiasts who all have full time jobs and do this for fun. a number of us are also Directors of the E&DMC Ltd. which puts legal responsibilities on us - ie if it goes wrong we could be in the dock.

The most realistic proposal yet is to put a detailed requirement down on paper and put it out to tender - quite how it is funded is another matter.

For those of you who haven't read regulation 6.1 it states that 'Fuel tanks should be capable of holding sufficient fuel for at least 35 miles.

we have never put this to the test but this is one area that we will have to look at seriously along with the importers and manufacturers.

keep the ideas coming

its good to know we are not alone !

[slapshot 3]

For those of you who haven't read regulation 6.1 it states that 'Fuel tanks should be capable of holding sufficient fuel for at least 35 miles.

we have never put this to the test but this is one area that we will have to look at seriously along with the importers and manufacturers.

Its good to know we are not alone !

OTH, what do the regs say about riders carrying extra fuel, litre or so in these aluminium bottles. I' m sure I've read something about this in the past. I know I carried an extra litre at the P65 and glad I did, I ran out on the way back in fom Meall Na Cruadhie, mind you that was after getting lost for 40 minutes above Blackwater before the riders got there along with the other observers.......

Never alone, the Six Days means to much to all of us

Edited May 14, 2008 by Slapshot 3

[old trials fanatic]

I carried a spare litre but didnt need to use it. OK it was the Pre 65 and the James carries 5 ltr but F.W.I.W. in Robregordo i will place a spare can at half way, section 9, and thats 25 - 30 kms.

OK this may not be relevant but the route in the Pre65 did pass the car park so there was also chance then to refuel.

Perhaps a careful planning of the route, though it may mean a change to the traditional, my be the answer and at least keep the SSDT for everybody.

As Darwin proved Things evolve perhaps it's time for the Scottish ?

[scorpa3]

Even returning to the car park doesn't really solve the problem as the same regulations would apply there.

If tank range was taken up to say... 50 miles, could the trial manage with one or two stops per day?

If money was no object there must be companies that could provide the service, so perhaps the combination of the two ideas would work? Bigger tanks and less stops with a proffesional company running the stops.

[kinell]

If tank range was taken up to say... 50 miles, could the trial manage with one or two stops per day?

This is an insignificant point compared to not having the SSDT at all but I'd like to say that riders like me want (NEED) numerous fuel stops. It's a chance to grab a bottle of water and have a minute to drink it whilst the bike gets fuelled up.

Like I say, a small point compared to the fuel but thought it best to mention it...

[atomant]

I am sure this is already being looked at, but my first point of call would be with the Army who have a proven track record of doing such a good job of it. I suspect that they cant do it for funding reasons so if thats the only reason, discuss the viability of a commercial contract with them to see if it can be sorted that way. Combine this with lobbying the local government based on the loss of potential local income if there was no trial (as mentioned above) is also a good thing to do. After all, people's livelihoods are very much in their remit. A very convincing argument could be put together.

I know it's a bit of a trek, but if I can be of any assistance, It wouldn't be nae' bother for me to pop up and help if needed.

[boofont]

This is an insignificant point compared to not having the SSDT at all but I'd like to say that riders like me want (NEED) numerous fuel stops.

You planning on doing it again?

Seriously, Atomant makes sense when he talks about the Army. Here's where I see things.

The Armed Forces are in a serious state. The thumbscrews are getting turned in just about every area as savings are sort. Add to this the relentless pace of Operations across the globe means there is no longer the bottomless pit to support such things as the SSDT. To put things in to perspective I know of highly skilled aircraft engineers that are being employed as cover guards for convoys and drivers, dental hygienists used as helicopter passenger manifest controllers, the list goes on.

I can't see the Army being able to support the event in the same way as before. I believe they may be able to offer their services but they must see some gain for doing it. Money is not really the answer. If the Army feels there is a gain by running it as a training exercise then that might help. If the Army can't do it then there is no way the RAF can, the RAF has far less in terms of resources. However, the RAF may be able to offer help where needed.

Another avenue is to get the Army/RAF/Armed forces onboard by allowing them to sell their product. All the Armed Forces pride themselves of their opinion in the public eye. What better publicity for the Armed Forces that their help has managed to ensure a national sporting event can take place solely because of them? I know thanks go out to the Army but why not get the Armed Forces Careers Information onboard too? Anyone been to an airshow etc? I bet you've seen them there.

Make this high profile, get the backing of some very high-ranking officers or even MP's and you will see doors open. Get the press involved, start banging some drums! It's got to be of more value to the UK and the Armed Forces than Prince William flying his pals to a stag do!!

[bilc0]

Fair point's about the Army or Raf covering the petrol supply's,say if the club manage's to talk one of them into doing it next year,will they be there to do it the following year if not we're going to be having the same descusion all over again.

If i was the club i'd like to be the one's in the driving seat to say yes or no if the Trial run's the next year.I can't see any other way now than employing an outside company to take the role on to be honest,as i say then the club is in the position to say yes or no.

As said before the entrie fee is bound to go up,however i can't see that stopping people wanting to ride it.

[tonyp]

Is the Territorial Army an option........may be more enthusiastic for such a training opportunity ?

[baldilocks]

Even returning to the car park doesn't really solve the problem as the same regulations would apply there.

If tank range was taken up to say... 50 miles, could the trial manage with one or two stops per day?

If money was no object there must be companies that could provide the service, so perhaps the combination of the two ideas would work? Bigger tanks and less stops with a proffesional company running the stops.

Totally agree, bigger tanks will do away with the less accessible stops deemed to be required and we then need a company who can re fuel somewhere on the roadside.

The trial does pass some petrol stations, could we do a deal with them where the rider uses a token ? I know there are very few but it may cut down the number of stops that need to be provided and Kinell can get pop and an ice cream.....