They may have had nothing in the fuel tank or water in the tyres so who knows what the real weight is?

I do Know theres not 5 speeds in the box though!

Why dont we just call it the H.I.M. and the HTC.

Edited December 26, 201312 yr by laser1

There has been a minimum weight in wtc for a few years now. Was next to Bous bike when it was weighed in France 2012 and it was just above the limit at 67kgs.

I stand corrected , I didn't know there was a minimum limit at all ...

Everything here http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfresco/2013_Trial_Tech_rules.pdf

Did I read that right - max 2t displacement is 290cc. If thats true, then most STD production 300 cc bikes will be out (292cc) what a bunch of BS. How does that save $$ - Getting rid of the most popular size 2t. And some people still deny a conspiracy.

Edited December 27, 201312 yr by laser1

Anybody read this as what Honda wants they get? They obviously feel they are running out of time with the 4T and the opposition is using other methods to catch them. Lighter bikes than they can produce. Fuel management systems making 2T's more efficient and more powerful. If thi is about saving money then I fail to see it. The Small guys are giving Honda a run for their money using less of the resources but more Brain power. Hence to stay in front Honda will have to spend more money than they would like. Maybe the budget is going to MOTO3 where KTM have used their brains to outmanoeuvre Honda. I do not see the new restrictions as saving any money at all for the Small teams. In Fact it means they have to increase Budgets to get the power out of the Smaller 2T's. the FIM just cannot get their head around the fact that the popularity of the sport remains with the easier and cheaper bikes to make and maintain. The push they seem to be making to to a more expensive version of Trials is not one a lot will put up with.

How are the FIM getting away with changing the rules so quickly as well. Any other Motorsport gives Notice of changes like this as the implications regarding development and cost are substantial. In Car racing the rules regarding weight and engines are signposted years in advance and any "safety" change is contested vehemently by the teams.

All it needs is Red Bull or some other organiser working with the alternative National federations to ratify a separate series for Trials with the rules decided by riders and proper promotion and the FIM will become irrelevant. In many respects the control DORNA has over WSBK and MOTOGP shows that. Do not forget that as far as "tracks" are concerned we do not have or need any licensed venues that the FIM can hold to ransom.

Some time ago I made a post about all sorts of restrictions to cut development and parts costs and got quite a bit of flak for it. I favor a weight limit and would like to see it gradually increased to 75 kg or even a shade more. But what also needs to be done is banning expensive materials like titanium and magnesium and putting minimum thickness limits on bash plates, engine casings, discs etc. The aim being to reduce costs and increase robustness.

The problem with what the FIM have done is akin to shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Oddly enough If I were buying anew trials bike I would likely buy a Honda, but If I were buying a MXer no way would I buy a four stroke. Not only are they heavier and more expensive to buy but they are noisier (tracks lost) and far more expensive to run and maintain.

Restrictions cannot be put on human ingenuity and resourcefulness and the simple desire to "tinker".

I have probably the lightest production trials bike ever made but still happy to put a few ti bits on it, will it make me a better rider, no, will I loose less marks, no, but any rules the acu fim or dad of 2 suggest wont change my ways. If anyone wanted what you suggest then the aftermarket suppliers would be making thicker bashplates casings etc, they don't cos no one wants it, or they buy a 4rt?

No club in the land is going to start weighing bikes before club events so it just aint gonna happen, like you say the horse has bolted.

I wasn't aware that Honda and the FIM are the same Company as some are implying?

"If anyone wanted what you suggest then the aftermarket suppliers would be making thicker bashplates casings etc, they don't cos no one wants it, " - quoted from #99

Can't agree with the above - When J Shirt and latterly N Birkett produced thicker aluminium flywheel cases to replace the flimsy magnesium cases on TYs plenty of people bought them. Plenty of people buy bash plate extensions, exhaust and frame protectors etc.Just because people don't specifically ask for it does not mean they would not like it if it were available.

Most buyers of the often quoted best built bike on the market replace the top quality thorntons sump guard. I think people will accept more weight if the bikes are more robust. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two bikes if one was full of fuel and the other was on reserve.

However the Fim rule change wont increase reliability. For that you need limited changes of key components in a season.

Edited January 3, 201412 yr by baldilocks

Most buyers of the often quoted best built bike on the market replace the top quality thorntons sump guard. I think people will accept more weight if the bikes are more robust. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two bikes if one was full of fuel and the other was on reserve.

However the Fim rule change wont increase reliability. For that you need limited changes of key components in a season.

I don't recall the earlier TXT Gas Gas having anywhere near the transmission problems as the lighter, new and improved Pro Model. So much for light weight.

But now its working fine reliable and lighter, its called progress.

"If anyone wanted what you suggest then the aftermarket suppliers would be making thicker bashplates casings etc, they don't cos no one wants it, " - quoted from #99

Can't agree with the above - When J Shirt and latterly N Birkett produced thicker aluminium flywheel cases to replace the flimsy magnesium cases on TYs plenty of people bought them. Plenty of people buy bash plate extensions, exhaust and frame protectors etc.Just because people don't specifically ask for it does not mean they would not like it if it were available.

Of course you are right, there are exceptions to the generality, but then the TY hasn't been produced for 20 odd years so not really relevant to fim minimum in 2014?

Bashplates for 4rts are probably the exception but that may be associated with their standard weight?

Fine if you want to disagree but my guess is aftermarket titanium footpegs from raptor and s3 among others, exhausts from thor arrow termignoni s3 etc are probably evidence contrary to you thoughts.