In various chats about bike development etc its 2t, 4t, electric etc and always rumours about Honda releasing a new bike in 2020- 2021 etc  and guessing what they may do next - it wont be a 2t as currently their policy is against that technology but it got me to thinking about a hybrid bike.

Trials is probably 70% low power with 30% max power.

Lots of descents as well for regenerative braking.

Just wondered if a small capacity engine with back up electric would work.

Weight would always be a drawback but maybe combined generator/motor, minimal fuel, single speed may off set it.

Just a random thought but would be an interesting project - might be interesting in the wet if the battery shorted out???

 

 

No where near enough bike sales in the trials market to cover the investment needed to develop a  hybrid bike

1 hour ago, technowaldo said:

No where near enough bike sales in the trials market to cover the investment needed to develop a  hybrid bike

..which is why the beta is the same engine for 20 years and 4rt gas gas and sherco are all so old. If there was any kind of money we would have seen development of new motors, there isnt, we havent.

I know all the above but just wondered as an engineering project if would be interesting.

Honda developed the EFI battery less system on the 4rt as a first and now on many other machines so maybe not a financial decision for a main stream builder .

What cost to build an electric bike but they are about - suppose it's a bit more bolt together a few standard items for electric

4 hours ago, nigel dabster said:

..which is why the beta is the same engine for 20 years and 4rt gas gas and sherco are all so old. If there was any kind of money we would have seen development of new motors, there isnt, we havent.

I think they are still running the same engines after 20 years because there is no reason to develop anything fundamentally new. Trials bikes are a mature technology so minor tweaks are sufficient. If one manufacturer develops a hybrid and is successful, they’ll all follow suit. In the meantime it is more cost effective to steer the development budget into “exciting new graphics”.

Hybrids tend to result in compromise, the disadvantage of two different sources. I saw results of companies using hybrid cars in their fleet, it was discovered that 60% had their charging cables still tucked away in their cellophane wrapping. ?

It will be heavy, more complicated and more expensive...and who cares about fuel economy on a trials bike?

Is it a complication you'd be wanting on a machine that you might fully throw into a stream, subject to massive sudden impact shocks and all that? simple is better.

Perhaps a better application of new technology would be fly by-wire. You could have radically different engine characteristics to suit the immediate conditions just in front of your front wheel. Much more useful than the current mode switches.

22 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

Perhaps a better application of new technology would be fly by-wire. You could have radically different engine characteristics to suit the immediate conditions just in front of your front wheel. Much more useful than the current mode switches.

Exactly (theoretically) how would you see that working?

On 12/27/2018 at 9:29 AM, nigel dabster said:

Exactly (theoretically) how would you see that working?

I own a road bike, a Yamaha MT09, it has a mode switch on the right switchh cluster, A B and std, it is also fly by wire in that the throttle is connected via bowden cable to a throttle potentiometer switch, the actual throttle butterfly is opened by an electric motor, switching modes alters the relationship between twist grip and thhrottle butterfly, in B mode the throttle only ever opens around 75% flat out and the that 75% is spread over the entire travel proportionately, in A mode though things are rather more mental with full throttle happening at around 75% of grip travel!

On 12/27/2018 at 9:29 AM, nigel dabster said:

Exactly (theoretically) how would you see that working?

Broadly like misscrabstick has said. It opens up the possibility of adding throttle position to the ECU map. Imagine having full throttle at the twist grip giving only 25% at the FI for trickling round some tight turns. Then with a flick of a thumb switch you go to full “quick throttle” mode to blast up a big climb. Basically like the current mode switches, but doing something useful.

On 12/28/2018 at 10:50 PM, trapezeartist said:

Broadly like misscrabstick has said. It opens up the possibility of adding throttle position to the ECU map. Imagine having full throttle at the twist grip giving only 25% at the FI for trickling round some tight turns. Then with a flick of a thumb switch you go to full “quick throttle” mode to blast up a big climb. Basically like the current mode switches, but doing something useful.

dont we all do that already anyway, by opening throttle a 1/4 round the turns then 3/4?

On 12/24/2018 at 7:43 AM, jimmyl said:

Honda developed the EFI battery less system on the 4rt as a first and now on many other machines so maybe not a financial decision for a main stream builder .

 

Honda did NOT develop the EFI for the 4RT.  The EFI technology had been developed and applied to other bikes long before the 4RT.  Honda just tweaked it for the 4RT. 

 

was the 4rt not the first battery less efi though