Where Does Trials Go In The Future?

[judyf]

ha ha, sorry! it was getting abit much being proper engish, and i think im prob abit younger tan you mate, Thanks for bin sarky tho, makes it worth while.

[boydw]

Hold on a minute -

ssdt entry full

Reeth Three day entry full

Scott entry (probably will end up being full as usual)

All with riders turning up on spec to blag a ride when they dont have one !

Hardly any UK Clubs folding due to lack of riders / members

To me that sounds like the sport is flourishing, even if you altered the WTC you would still only get a few more riders, because the likes of Fuji, Doug, Raga, etc will still win, a few other lads/lasses will have a go - But the costs remain the same, even with TV rights etc- WTC sponsors want the top riders, not also rans.

and in all honesty you are never going to get 150 riders at a wtc, the paddock would have to be huge, never mind the logistical nightmares!!!!

Look at the BTC, 50 riders most of which are supported, same old faces for past 10 years with a few youngsters coming through when the older ones retire or start families etc.

[judyf]

totally agree with you boyd, there isnt anything wrong with british trials scene, i just ment the world rounds and the british championship, the s.s.d.t, scott, etc are proper trials which run on proper rules, so i dint mean these events. good points aswell bout the world rounds, but still fink something has to done about the world champs rules etc, before it gets bit silly.

[bilco]

I do wonder if this topic would have even been thought of if our man dougie was on the top probaly not,it would have been what a great win by dougie.what we really need is a another brit rider coming up the rank's to take dougie's place,does anybody know who that will be?.

Don't let's forget these rider's are getting paid for risking life and limb.

Anybody that know's there history on trial's would know it take's its natural direction on how it will change,so yes it's down to the people that pump there money into the sport on how thing's change.

It's a shame there's not more youngster's on here to give there view.

It's a great sport what ever level your at enjoy.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

world and british trials at the moment is like a circus! the sections just get bigger and bigger but the top 5 riders are that gud they just keep cleaning them, dont get me wrong its amazing to watch, and they are the most skillful of motorcycle riders! but people who ride at a high level know its not just bout big rock steps all the time, put a 10foot rock in front of raga and lampkin un they will get up it every time, there needs to be more thought put in2 the sections, and the current rules are crap, the riders are that gud now that if you let them stop and hop without penelty they will clean almost everyfing, i remember goin to patley bridge in 93 un there was like 30 odd riders, rate gud trial, rate hard, but natural hard stuff, not rev the B*****ks off un up a massive outcrop every section which jus gets boring, un now theres like 12 riders (i know theres youths un juniors) but only oliveras/ gilbert and brown are gud enough to do the main route, oh and ely of course. there like 15 other world class riders plenty gud enough to ride world rounds (pascuet, nozaki, tanaka, bruand, etc) but wots the piont them spending **** loads of money trveling to ride them trials, its not the people who set the sections out cos they do a great job, i know wot its like you can never please every1 and its hard work, its not them whos at blame for the sections, its the f.i.m, and the a.c.u, they need to realise that the sections cant keep getting harder, jus make them more like trials, raga would drop more in a novgar than a world round at the moment (well he wunt but u know wot i mean) in formula and racing it was getting to dangerous and fast so they alter the tracks and the bikes, they need to do the same we trials, also instead of the a.c.u sending like 7 members and officals to every world round and staying in hotels, drinking wine, dancing we bitches and not actually knowing why they are there accept spending our entry fee money on stuff they dont need to, or throwing big dinners at fancey hotels when the cud be investing money like wot the other countrys do in there top riders, at the moment we have the best young riders in the world, and if the a.c.u stop spending all our money on ****, and them selfs and invested it in, dabil, brown, morris,danby,challoner, ellwood, morton, sampson, haslem, andrews etc, we wud hav the best riders in the world for the next 20years! infact at the trials des nations we cud have british a, b, and c teams and come 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, anyway this post is prob the longest in the world but to end it trials needs

* stops a 1 rule back ( and make every trial the same or no stop)

* more money invested in trials riders

*more training days for youths

*revise the standard of sections, it dunt need to be rev splat, rev splat! or if your not in the top 10, rev splat, rev splat oh crash, broken spine, broken bike, arr **** no money, cant go to work, are **** it a.c.u will pay or ge me some help, oh no wait a min, there all in majorca drinking san migel we golden bronze tans!

*and try un living up the out door sence like the indoors, try and make trials an intereting sport again, un have like 35-40 riders in a world round, and sure that if the sections were like they were bk in like 93-94-95 ppl like austermuhle, mcdonald, thorpe, baker, etc would have a go un do well, have a few cleans and enjoy it, but at the moment its *****! Thanks anyway, lets hope trials changes for the better before every1s ridind enduro, or in the pub, nicework.xxxxxxxxxxxx

Bloody cracking post

[kinell]

staying in hotels, drinking wine, dancing we bitches

Excellent

[crosser]

no stop

no minders or outside assistence in any way

restrict the size of the rear tyre?

for me trials riding at all levels need to get back to man and machine against the terrain, I would like to see raga set off in a world championship with just a bumbag! it would make it more of a leval playing field instead of the best riders having the best bikes, most minders,best back-up, get to start at the back of the entry etc.

Make it fair and im sure more riders would fancy a go.

Lets get back to it been a mans spot (phillipe berlatiere, Rob Crawford, Bruno Cammozzi they didnt need a man to hold there coat, a man to do the tyre presure, a man to but the kicker in etc)

At the moment on Eurosport it just looks like 8 young boys and Dougie riding round in lyrca suits surrounded by people shouting at them!!

I bet the perverts are loving it!

Crosser

[adsy]

CROSSER Posted Today, 09:21 AM

no stop

no minders or outside assistence in any way

restrict the size of the rear tyre?

for me trials riding at all levels need to get back to man and machine against the terrain, I would like to see raga set off in a world championship with just a bumbag! it would make it more of a leval playing field instead of the best riders having the best bikes, most minders,best back-up, get to start at the back of the entry etc.

Make it fair and im sure more riders would fancy a go.

Lets get back to it been a mans spot (phillipe berlatiere, Rob Crawford, Bruno Cammozzi they didnt need a man to hold there coat, a man to do the tyre presure, a man to but the kicker in etc)

At the moment on Eurosport it just looks like 8 young boys and Dougie riding round in lyrca suits surrounded by people shouting at them!!

Have to disagree with ya there Crosser.

All of the above would just de-professionalise the sport at the top level, Ok maybe they should be restricted to only one minder, but no matter how many minders you've got, the rider still has to ride the Bike!!!

Would Moto Gp be better if Valentino Rossi turned up in a Tranny van, filled his bike up wi fuel & ragged round on road tyres!! I don't think so. I do think that top level trials has got too elitiste, but wat other top level motorsport has'nt? I think once Dougie & co have retired it will find it's own level again, because the FIM are too scared of the established riders to tell them wat to do!

To keep the public interest though, trials has to be a spectacle, to make viewers/spectators go WOW how did he do that on a motorbike, trying to go back in time to the glory days of flat caps & trials wellies won't do that. I don't have the answers, but to me, you should never try & go back.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll be able to discuss it over a pint or few in't Buser sometime.

laters Adsy

[judyf]

world trials would be better if they all rode standard machinery, each rider has only one minder, and in a 15 section event have like 5 ultra hard sections where the top lads will excel cos after all it is a world round, and have 5 hard and then 5 sections to like british championship standard, then the gap is not so huge, also try and have the different events in the counrtys to represent the type of location/type counrty ie, british round, british style sections, rocks, streams, mud, mud, mud,mud, banks, and then when you ride in spain have the spanish style big dry rocks and streams etc, every trial dunt have to be the same otherwise you have got a world champion at trials, you have a world big rock getter upper champion, also you shud be able to drop a couple of rounds, not every1 can afford to go to japan, usa,etc, the stops a 1 is a gud rule which they shud stick 2, the only reason it dint work was because the observers/ officals were **** scared to give the top lads a 1 for stopping or a 5 for hopping when stopped, let the observing be harsh! then there not getting away we marks, last year at hawkstone a rider would through and i would count like 5 stops and the observer would hold up clean!!!!!!.

[crosser]

adsy, no wonder all that bloody granite worktops I order from you take so long, now get back to that cnc machine and stop reading these forums all day!!!!

let me know when we are having a pint, it will all become clear after a couple of gallon!

[slapshot 3]

no stop

no minders or outside assistence in any way

restrict the size of the rear tyre?

for me trials riding at all levels need to get back to man and machine against the terrain, I would like to see raga set off in a world championship with just a bumbag! it would make it more of a leval playing field instead of the best riders having the best bikes, most minders,best back-up, get to start at the back of the entry etc.

Make it fair and im sure more riders would fancy a go.

Lets get back to it been a mans spot (phillipe berlatiere, Rob Crawford, Bruno Cammozzi they didnt need a man to hold there coat, a man to do the tyre presure, a man to but the kicker in etc)

At the moment on Eurosport it just looks like 8 young boys and Dougie riding round in lyrca suits surrounded by people shouting at them!!

I bet the perverts are loving it!

Crosser

Why can't wtc organisers have more common sense like Crosser, Man and Machine against the terrain, perfect.

Loads of years ago when we had a wtc round in Glen Nevis, Steve Suanders retired, he appeared at the side of the big marquee on his mountain bike to watch the end of the proceedings, asked him why. Too hard was the response.

However, what this said to me and my reply to Steve was this: this is the stuff that connect trials riders whether you are a fat aging git like myself who struggles to get the bike off the rack never mind ride a trial or "immortal" like Steve. We can all have a day when it gets too hard, we can have days when the last thing we want to do is hit that chuffing big step on the last lap, cos you're knackered and know you're more likely to end up at the bottom than the top, chuff it and put the bike back on the trailer. You don't disrespect a rider of Steve's calibre for that level of honesty

Whatever level you ride at you have a scrap with the terrain, we have to do it on our own why can't the good guys. they chuck their leg over a bike the same as us, they're just a bit better at it...respect the good guys but how much more would we respect them if the WTC was like Crosser suggests, and how many has he ridden in his career, think he might know

[crosser]

I think we have to stop going on about trials trying to go mainstream and forget television becouse it will NEVER happen.

1- I have rode trials all my life and to be honest when I watch the world championship I carnt understand whats going on!! it is just way too complicated. What chance does a mainstream viewer have?

2- it is allmost impossible to film and would be very expensive.

3- it is not very exciting and very slow!! we will never get more than a few badly produced minutes on Eurosport becouse that is all the market demands.

we have to stop looking for big companies to come in with loads of money becouse we are just flogging a dead horse, it is not a viable advert for them.

For me we do have to go back! we need to try and make it possible for more riders to have a go at the top level, if I wrote a press release saying dougie had won a world championship riding against the best 80 riders in the world or dougie has won a world championship riding against the best 8 riders in the world! (what do you think is the best story and therfore the best chance of getting printed?)

make trials easy to understand, and fair for all the riders. Then hopefully it will grow and more kids would become interested, we would sell more bikes and the importers/dealers/factories would make more money and be able to pass that on to the top riders, to at least give them a living form the sport there effort deserves. forget mainstream sponcership and television rights we need to grow first.

crosser

[judyf]

well said crosser, trials will never be a spectator sport because its not racing! most people wanna see racing and trials is as far away as you can get, people who ride trials love trials, people who dont, dont even know what it is or watch it for about 5minutes and think wow, but after 5mins there not that bothered and just ask question like " how fast is your bike?" at least everyone who rides trials knows how good it is and that we are the most talented of motorcycle riders!!!!!!!!!!

[rabie]

.... its not the people who set the sections out cos they do a great job, i know wot its like you can never please every1 and its hard work, its not them whos at blame for the sections, its the f.i.m, and the a.c.u, they need to realise that the sections cant keep getting harder, jus make them more like trials, raga would drop more in a novgar than a world round at the moment (well he wunt but u know wot i mean) in formula and racing it was getting to dangerous and fast so they alter the tracks and the bikes, they need to do the same we trials, also instead of the a.c.u sending like 7 members and officals to every world round and staying in hotels, drinking wine, dancing we bitches and not actually knowing why they are there accept spending our entry fee money on stuff they dont need to, or throwing big dinners at fancey hotels ...

I really doubt the ACU pay for 7 people to go to each GP, with heir other half's and pay for them to wined and dined.

Yes for reasons lost way back in time, the ACU sends a jury delegate to every GP (in MX, Trials, enduros, etc). IMHO in an era of "pros", with "teams" and as everyone says enough hangers on to fill a tour bus is this really necessary ??? (that is the real question). BUT even then it is still one person (and a spouse sometimes who i believe has to pay their way).

But the last bit really demonstrates the issue - you don't know where your money goes so you see it as being mishandled / wasted. In my ***Humble *** opinion they collect very very little money off you all, which by the time they have paid for what you already get - lobbying, Des nations teams, ACU academy and 1 (in effect) secretary (there is probably more and this is a far from definitive list) - there is probably sweet FA left over.

...when the cud be investing money like wot the other countrys do in there top riders, at the moment we have the best young riders in the world, and if the a.c.u stop spending all our money on ****, and them selfs and invested it in, dabil, brown, morris,danby,challoner, ellwood, morton, sampson, haslem, andrews etc, we wud hav the best riders in the world for the next 20years! infact at the trials des nations we cud have british a, b, and c teams and come 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, anyway this post is prob the longest in the world

i have to strongly disagree here. while other federation have state support and member support to burn money by "helping" the youth riders become top level riders, we in the UK don't have the state support and more importantly i passionately don't believe you have the support of the membership to burn money on helping youths. IMHO the academy idea is a load of b****, and a waste of our money. IMHO the fundamental goal should be enabling everyone to enjoy our sport (ie bums on seats), not helping an elite few. in practise this should translate into a land fund explicitly to enable land purchases, a legal defence fund to fight the litigation and an "anti anti's" fund to fight the ramblers and tree huggers and their legislation they keep bringing out to stop our sport (ie get some lobbiest and lawyers so we can't fight the ramblers).

the average club level riders doesn't IMHO really care to much about the WTC, and who might win it in 20 years time - its a complete waste of money. thats not to say if the lottery or some company/millionaire was prepared to offer us money for youth trainging we should refuse but IMHO the majority of the membership out there doesn't support it.

but to end it trials needs

* stops a 1 rule back ( and make every trial the same or no stop)

i don't see how we can have one rule. some riders want to bunny hop, some riders want non stop, and some want to be able to "stop with penalties". whether the observers are marking the "stops" right is another ball game (i did upset a lot of people when i did this when i observed a centre trial!!!). fundamentally we should be a "broad church" capable of coping and accepting diversity so we are unified for when we need to fight the "anit's". by being dictatorial and imposing one system you will lead to "UDI's" and people will **** off an do AMCA, OPRA, etc and leave us divided when the anti's come for us (next?). we lost around a fifth of our centre to the AMCA over wearing helmets FFS. you impose one rule you'll lose more (either the pre65s or modern bikes, etc) - just look at the divisions that stretch across MX (approx 6 different governing bodies, etc) ......

* more money invested in trials riders

*more training days for youths

as above, IMHO b******. can't sell the idea to the majority to secure funding bearing in mind our scarce resources

*revise the standard of sections, it dunt need to be rev splat, rev splat! or if your not in the top 10, rev splat, rev splat oh crash, broken spine, broken bike, arr **** no money, cant go to work, are **** it a.c.u will pay or ge me some help, oh no wait a min, there all in majorca drinking san migel we golden bronze tans!

you may be right in section design but section design is solely down to the promoting clubs, the ACU has sweet FA to do with it.

if you are referring to the current ACU insurance policy, it does have limited personal accident (in addition to public liability and third party) cover. my understanding is it will help you in the event of death, loss of limb, and 4 weeks+ in hospital. IMHO thats not great thats why I've got CICA insurance (BTW I'm the crappiest infrequent riders our there, with no money as I'm a student). IMHO everyone should have the CICA policy especially at that level where that sort of risk is being taken. we ditched the ACU equivalent of the CICA cover (ie personal accident) because riders were taking the p*** and costs were spiralling out of control. we then did opt in for one year, but only 10 people (or so) took it up (nationwide across all sports). so its gone. estimates go that we would have to add 50% to entry fees to continue it. now this is whole other debate but if your riding a sport where this could happen on any sort of regular basis you should have personal accident insurance!

as for you opinions of where the ACU money does do - well see above

*and try un living up the out door sence like the indoors, try and make trials an intereting sport again, un have like 35-40 riders in a world round, and sure that if the sections were like they were bk in like 93-94-95 ppl like austermuhle, mcdonald, thorpe, baker, etc would have a go un do well, have a few cleans and enjoy it, but at the moment its *****! Thanks anyway, lets hope trials changes for the better before every1s ridind enduro, or in the pub, nicework.xxxxxxxxxxxx

sure why not - thats up to the FIM, the WTC organisers and its promoters, etc, etc - IMHO the ACU very little influence real or perceived in this matter. as an organiser of several major events across 3 sports i laugh in pity at anyone trying to put on a British trials championship round - there is no way you can break even (IMHO).

motorsport works (ie breaks even) one of 3 ways;

1) entry fees cover the costs - ie most trials

2) spectator admission covers the costs - ie Sheffield and Hawkstone

3) sponsors/state aid - eg northern Ireland WTC and IWTC

thus a free to watch trial with minimal sponsorship and no state aid with only 40 odd riders really IMHO can't work - until this fundamental piece of logic is resolved i don't understand how British trials championship can work

rabie (aka Jamie Clarke, sh*tstirer of the south, Sidcup & DMCC, SEC ACU, etc, etc, Pinhard Prize winner, can't ride out of sight on a dark night)

[judyf]

wow, you have far to much time on your hands mate, good points though, i still think im right though!!!!!!!!!! lol, everyone to there own, i ride at a high level and also involed in a club and the running of it so im just going on past experience, but you also seem to know your way round the a.c.u hand book etc. i dont because i burnt mine and danced on the burning embers while laughing at the current state of the a.c.u. many thanks.