scorpa3

Well... doesn't that link very nicely with this thread. If this was going to be raised at the cancelled ACU forum, I am kicking myself even harder for not putting my name down to attend.

i'm with woody on this one. Another thread on these boards has been discussing the '83 Scottish. I remember the top section on Ben Nevis that year, two cleans Martin Lampkin and Bernie Schrieber, that was it. Long straight wide section with a big step in the middle awkward run in, didn't nee to be any harder than that. This year, Jarvis won on 14 marks next closest was 24. Rules: No Stop tough sections all the same though. WTC has gotten do far away from the reality of trials that it's unlikely to come back unless the FIM look at and enforce NO STOP, It is the only way that WTC will start to increase entires across the classes. The Scottish is a good indicator of that. Whether TV comes in or not, Sponsorship will only fall to the top two or three riders, it never does filter it's way down, same in every sport unless it's a headline sponsor, like the premiership. Money filtering down is part of the rules. It brings the old arguement back but No Stop really is the best way forward..no pun intended I agree too. Go back to non stop and have everyone using the same rules.

The format for the 2007 series has been agreed, The Stratford club are proud to be associated wih the Novogar championship and look forward to running the Colmore in March. We will make sure the severity is correct as John pointed out in his reply earlier in the thread.

Looking purely at entry numers for the Colmore, numbers are always up when it is a Novogar round. Last year the club struggled to cover costs with such a low entry. We don't run trials to make money but we certainly need to make something. The most important thing is to give the maximum number of customers what they want so that they enjoy the trial and come back year after year. By considering two routes, (thats considering only) we were only trying to react to our customers needs. As we are unable to run two routes, we will adapt the event to broaden its appeal in other ways.

I agree. Well done Alexz and Sam

Thanks Justin, I'll pm you about something else later. For the Colmore the final decision rests with Alan Wright, he is the Clerk of the Course and loves hard trials. He is also quite a good rider himself, although the old codger is retired now! The Colmore is never going to be an easy ride, especially if it rains or freezes as it did last year but I will try my hardest to make it as clubman friendly as possible next year. Most of the section plotters will be happy with this, although the decider will almost certainly be set out by Mr Hicken. Remember the three sisters from 2002 in Dovedale and Jarvis' seized (not seized ) bike! Now they were tough sections... even by WTC standards. I don't think we will see those in 2007

Yes, Lejeune won in 1987. Other winners include: W.D.South was the first winner in 1911 Vic Brittain won in 1939 Sammy Miller in 59, 60, 61, 65 & 67 Mick Andrews in 72 M.Rathmell in 75, 78 & 79 D.Lampkin in 94 & 95 And not forgetting Steve Saunders in 83, 84, 85, 86, 88, 90, 93, 98, 99 & 2000. Concerning the severity of next years Novogar Colmore, it is very likely that this will be an easier event than for some years. It will be set out to appeal to riders like Betarev3 who are genuine clubman. The top lads (and that includes past champions!) will find it easy going, so they'll just have to concentrate on not loosing that silly 'I'll never get that back' five. Won't they!

The organising clubs enjoy the prestiege of having top riders enter on a no points basis, it raises the profile of the event and (speaking for the Colmore) they help to make the trial more comercialy viable. If riders who have scored points in the British or WT championships were actually prohibited from riding, it would make setting out these events easier. But we would miss those riders. It's a catch 22 situation. Only a thought but if this is the solution, then perhaps previous clubman champions should also be prohibited? This would give the others a chance and get the series back to being clubman friendly. Just look at the winners of the Colmore over the past 25 years. How many of these were clubmen when they won? M.Rathmell, J.Reynolds, Y.Vesterinen, S.Saunders, E.Lejeune, T.Scarlet, S.Colley, W.Braybrook, D.Lampkin, R.Crawford, G.Jarvis, S.Connor and D.Thorpe. I say again..... we'd miss riders such as this.

Well said John.

Ohh go on..... put me out of my mysery. Who, if anyone, might this effect in the Junior WTC?

How many classes would that make it overall?

What a good job the Kings Norton Club did today staging the latest round of the Midland Centre Championship. Experts and Inters rode the A route with Clubmen and Over 40's on the B route. 38 sections on the road with every one fully observed. Talking in the car park after the event, it looks as if Mark Hicken took top spot with just one mark lost. John Cowley was also riding well but had a five aparently. On the B route, Clive Charleton was riding well loosing six marks with Mick Chapman not far behind on nine. Phil Ducker was also going well until the last section of the day when he notched up a failure to put him on 13. Phil was not the only B route rider to succum to the sting in the tail final section, I caught the easy looking rooted climb wrong and dropped a five her myself finishing on sixteen in the end. What a brilliant trial and a huge club effort. Thanks very much.

Absolutely BRILLIANT idea. That way there might be some chance of a common standard after a while. Every round with the same level of severity. Riders know what to expect and enter the whole championship. That way we all benefit.

I am confident that you will find the Colmore round meets yor criteria next year.

Not forgetting Dave Clinkard And unbelievably... Steve Saunders

I'm ready to order one but I need to know how much and when? You will order one without even trying it or seeing what the market feedback is and if it has any problems? I know someone who done that with a Sherco 4T I was SOOOO close to doing that very thing myself.

If you don't mind Justin. I'll use this quote at the next club meeting. This sums it up very well indeed. Graham Jarvis has won a few Colmores, how could we take marks off Graham and still give the clubmen a chance? I think we are going to have to forget the top five and hope that they sort themselves out by simply making mistakes. To quote one British Championship (non Novogar) rider from three years ago "This is a waste of time, I knocked a marker over in that last group and the sections are so easy I'll never get that five back."

My sections will all be easier than this year. If there is a step, then you will be able to get straight before hitting it unlike this year when the approach to the steps was tight.

Trouble is, (no disrespect intended) if riders like Mark, John Cowley, Steve Workman or Colin Crease score 15 or so, the top five are all going to be close to clean. It's a catch 22 situation. We know what we want to do but only time will tell if we can achieve it. As for the Colmore Trophy, I suspect that will still have to go to the overall winner although the club could consider awarding it to the first point scorer. I will bring it up for discussion at the next meeting.

It might be woth trying Central Wheel components at Coleshill not far from the NEC, they offer a brilliant wheel building service. I had my Gas Gas rims changed and fitted with stainless steel spokes a couple of years ago, they as they wern't very busy that day, they were done the following day! Around

Define clubman, please. Now this is the core issue. Everyone has a different method for working out sections. I'll attempt to explain my own approach to the sections which I set out. I consider myself to be an average Club level clubman (actually over 40 now.) In our regular club trials we run three routes. Starting with the easiest C, I make these simple and straight forward. I imagine myself cleaning every one. The middle B route, these have tighter turns, steeper climbs and one of two nastier bits. I imagine myself getting through them all but cleans are a premium. Then there is the A route, I make these tougher with bigger steps or climbs usually with no room for a run up. I can't imagine myself getting through any of them for less than a scabbling three, although usually after the trial I have a go and some aren't quite that bad. Then there are the Colmore sections, these always have bigger climbs usually multiple ones, with the biggest steps I can find (not many around here, all we have is tree lined banks as a rule) with the smallest amount of run up. I know full well that I wouldn't be able to do one single section in the whole trial and wouldn't even try. For the Novogar Colmore 2007, I will be modifying my approach. I am going to set out all of my sections as if they are club A routes. Nothing you wouldn't find in one of our regular club trials on the A route. If it rains overnight (or freezes,like this year) I will ease the sections. There will be a enough room to get straight for the big (bigger) steps and I will take out the kinks from the big climbs. The challenge for the top five will be not to loose that odd dab, I will expect them to go clean on my sections and I won't expect anyone to have all fives on my ones. Hopefully the whole event will be far more rideable for CLUBMEN and Ladies. With luck we will still have an outright non championship winner, it only takes that one lapse of concentration.

It looks as if it's been in production for years. Like a Rev3 was always going to have this engine.... right from the start. No bodges or compramises at all that I could see. Just a well designed and well thought out trials bike. It just looks...... right.

We stood and looked at the Rev4t from a few inches for maybe half an hour this aftenoon. It looks so refined that you would believe it if Beta said it was in its third or fourth year of development. I hate to admit it but the Beta by comparison makes the Scorpa4t look as if it was made in a school technology department. Lets hope it rides as well as it looks. Well done (so far ) Beta. I like it.... lots!

Thank you everyone for your input, especially John. As far as the Novogar rounds are concerned the question has been answered. The Stratford-Upon-Avon Colmore Cup round of the series in March will be One route over 40 sections set out to cater for Clubmen. British Championship riders may enter on a non point scoring basis; whilst we will welcome them, they must understand that the event is likely to be very easy by their standards.

Last year the Colmore was a stand alone National without the Novogar status, so perhaps this is not totally applicable but; Dan Thorpe was the winner on three marks lost, Sam Connor runner up on nine, Chris pearson third on 12 and Sam Haslam fourth on 14. There were 61 entries riding one route, 40 sections, one lap with punch cards. As stated previously in this thread, the sections were probably too hard for the average club Expert. Just looking at the scores further down the finishing order you can draw your own conclusions. Mark Hicken 40, Gary Jenkins 40, Colin Crease 54, Dean Basford 89, Barry Husband 92, Peter Archer 100, Katy Sunter 101. Non of this list are wobblers but there were some fairly large scores, but remember Dans won on three. Fifteen riders out of 61 starters dropped over 100. I set out five sections this year, yes I accept that the five I set out were to hard. Only the winner had five cleans, I took four off Connor, two from Pearson and five from Haslam. Not too bad you say! Look further down, nine riders fived evey one. Eight more had four fives and a three. I can honestly say that setting out those five sections with one route took longer than setting out a three route club trial with 12 sections. It is far tougher for the Clerk of the Course to find rideable sections for the majority that will still give us a result. Yes there must be consideration given to maintaining the corrrect severity for the Championhip route, certainly NO harder. It is the clubmans championship. But what harm would it be to put on a support route suitable for those bottom 15 or 20 riders that lost over 100? It would be no problem to allocate entries appropriate to the status of the event. Be that 60/60 80/40 or what ever. The clubs hard work might then be paid of by running a pestigious Novogar round with a full entry and a decent financial return. This is just my view of the subject, not the necessarily Stratford Clubs but we are open to suggestions.