amiller

Its funny where a topic goes in a short amount of time. I guess what got me thinking about this was a training day we had at The Miller Ranch this summer. We had a pretty good group of bikes represented and also a bunch of different skill levels represented. Through out the day I rode all the praticipants bikes, to help with setup and also show them there bikes do eveything just fine, its the rider that is mostly the problem, and also had them ride my bike, Factory 300 Beta. As the day wore on a few things became very clear. The 14 Repsol 260 Honda was admired and loved by all to look and bench race. The reality of it was it was the hardest bike to ride with good results. That went from a beginner riding it, several levels inbetween, and some Experts. Now this is a bone stock bike keep in mind. The owner even admitted and proved to himself that his results were far better on my Beta, a bike he had never ridden, than on the Honda he was curently competing on. Few of the issues. The bike turns like a bus, clutch has poor progression, and stock gearing is to high. Those things combined made it hard for all but the top riders to be competent in the sections. Now I know Tony Bou would not be bothered by any of those things but it was still interesting to see over the range of riders we had, all swaping bikes to ride the same sections, that the Honda was the hardest bike to have the easiest ride on for all levels of riders. Anyway, I know a good rider can make any bike work. I know that Tony could probably ride a TY350 and beat most of the riders in the world. I just thought it would be interesting for 1 time to see the best of the best compete on bone stock entrys.

You will get no arguement from me that Tony Bou is the best. I also believe he remains the best on any factory team. Bearing that in mind how does he finish under the following......... 2015 Sheffield The usual suspects, Bou, Raga, Cabby, and Farardo. All riding for their present factory except for one minor change. Each rider gets a bike fresh out of the box just like us Mortals ride. The only set up is done by the rider personally. Handlebar, brake, and clutch are the only things allowed to be adjusted. So, is Tony still finishing first on a box stock Repsol Honda? Do Cabby or Fajardo have an advantage on a box stock Factory 300 or maybe Raga on a stock Raga would come out on top. Just think it would be interesting.

Im with Steve, just dont use that crappy Maxima gear oil in them. Aaron

You will just have a super slow throttle that way. It will also turn about twice as far, so far in fact wide open is almost to far for normal hand position. I found the bikes much harder to ride with the 2t throttle. Aaron

Keep it stock. Gearing is great the way it is. 1st will feel a bit fast at first but 1st and 2nd will be all the gears you need for almost any section, in fact 1st gear will do anything but a long steep climb. Aaron

I never used the hot start or did the mod. Always start in neutral. Sometimes a gentle kick through before giving it the boot makes it easier. Mine always started rather easily. Aaron

Yes, you still wear out rear brake pads, although I found rear tire wear was longer. Swapping back to the 2 stroke was not bad at all. Took me much less time to feel right on the bike again than when I went to the 4t. Added bonus, I now feel better giving the 2t a few extra seconds waiting to see if it will make an obstacle before the foot goes down do to the 4t doing things slower anyway. Feel more comfortable giving the 2t time now. Aaron

You bought the right bike. I rode my REV 4 250 for 2 seasons. Loved it. Spent the first 3 months thinking I made a huge mistake. Spent the rest of the time enjoying the thing. I cant think of a better bike for casual woods riding. No way the 2 stroke is better,just different. Aaron

Built from scratch in my buddies garage. Started life as an idea and some straight tubing. I enjoyed riding Vintage Trials but I didnt like the old geometry of the bikes, high pegs far forward, short swing arm, a lot of rake. I started modifying my TY175. Longer swing arm, lower and moved back foot pegs, more shock angle, TY 250 front end... Anyway, I just decided that modifying was not the right approach. Might as well start from an idea. I used a 200X Honda ATC motor, wanted the forward kick, early Aprilla inverted forks and clamps, and tried to build a frame around that to match my Beta REV geometry as close as possible. Cut out a head stock on a lathe to use with the Aprilla nose and started bending tube. Bike works well for me. Brakes suck still. Have to find some Fantic, SWM, or Bull hubs. My TY hubs are not cutting it. Suspension is great. Very capable of Zaps and Splatters. If at some point I can get some drum brakes that work better I will probably quit the new bikes and ride the built bike for all trials. With the front end set up it would be easy to convert back to a front disc brake. So far we have 4 TY 250 versions , 2 200X Honda powered bikes, and 1 441 Victor BSA powered monster out there competing. The 5th TY 250 version should be ready for the spring. Aaron

NTA Honda pictures.My link

You mean the one in the first video?

A couple quick videos from our 3rd Annual Thanksgiving Night Trials. All in attendance seemed to have a good time once again. Its a different perspective on trials to say the least! Nothing like trying to figure out how deep the water is in the creek at each crossing with your headlight. Sometimes a little Faith is in order. Looking forward to next year. Aaron Sorry about the quality, but I was asked to post them anyway.

I was a big fan of my 07. If you go 08 take a good listen to the crank bearings on the 2 stroke. 08 4t is awesome also. Out of the 04 05 06 go 06 for sure. I liked my 02 better than my 03. Aaron

Mine is an 08 250 4t. Still a Rev still linkless. I felt it was excellent on steps. You have to get comfortable with the fact that it does things slower. Still goes just fine. Takes some adjustment in timing. My only complaint and its my fault but I do not splatter well with it. Things I hit with the 2 stroke easily still take me several tries to do well on the 4t. Cant explain it. Other riders on the same bike will do it fine but I struggle. Suspension wise I would still rather have the linkless. I just like it better. Been riding a linkless since 2000 and if it was an option on the Evo I would have it. Aaron

I have been riding a Beta 250 4t for 2 seasons now. Great bike. I am planning on getting rid of it to go back to a 290 EVO though. I never had a 02 290 Sherco but I did have an 06 290 Sherco. Hands down for me there is no comparison. Beta is smoother, better traction all the way around, better bike. Biggest complaint on the Sherco was the brakes or lack there of. They just dont compare. Beta. was easier to ride and maintain. Scores proved the rides. Had some air filter issues on the Sherco. Beta totally out turns the Sherco. Only reason I am not staying with the 4 stroke is price. Dont know if any of the above helps but thats what my experience was.... Aaron

Did you try a new spark plug wire and plug cap first? Around these parts that seems to be the problem in most cases with the 4rt. Aaron

Hey Nigel, How is the turning radius compared to the EVO? After riding Beta for so many years I have grown very fond of their turning radius. I rode the 2010 gasser and felt it just couldnt turn within the Beta radius. Why are you switching from the EVO? Something new and different or actual issues with the EVO? As the Ossa or a new EVO are my choice to replace the REV just wondering if the Ossa is going to be worth the wait and price??? Thanks, Aaron

Its interesting to watch were a post goes from the the conception. Its also very interesting to see how many of you are struggling with the very same problems as we are. I really question how much longer this sport will continue. Three years ago myself and several other riders broke away from our club to start something new. We had been watching attendance drop for years and also noticed we could not get any new interest from young or old riders. For 10 years I had been trying to address this problem and pull the club away from its 70's concepts. Things change and times change. To survive you sorta have to keep in tune with the times. Change proved impossible from within. When we set up the new club we tried to address all the problems we saw in the past. First we dropped the 20 page rule book. Pretty much couldnt see subjecting riders to National Standards when most were just out to enjoy the day on their bike. With that we also let anyone who would step up as an organizer decide how he wanted to do the trials. Yes we have standards, but if someone was willing to step up we didnt want to discourage them. From that we found that a gate system became most popular. With our gate system you can have something for everyone. Since the rider makes his own line he gets much less discouraged and beat up. Its up to him to decide on abilities. We also make sure new riders have someone to go ride with that understands things. Also a father can go ride with his kids all day. Or a rider can be with his buddies regardless of class. Bottom line was we wanted to make things as user friendly and family oriented as possible. There is a whole list of things we change to attract and keep new riders. It was working for the first 2 years. This past year things changed once again. Attendance dropped sharply. We were having problems covering sanction and insurance. Now with the added cost we are reluctant to take on many events. I wish I had an answer. I believe the present economy along with the soaring costs of everything are killing us. Lets face it, the USA covers a lot of square miles. The whole of Europe is like traveling through Texas. We have to travel farther for local events than the European community has to travel for the European Championship. It takes 3 days of straight driving to get to the opposite coast for a National Event here. Maybe the USA is no longer suitable for our sport to continue. Less bike manufactures being imported less choice for potential buyers. Soaring prices on the ones that are available. Worthless $ makes purchasing European goods out of reach combined with unfriendly importing laws making it that much more expensive here. At the end of the day the only reason to continue is the pure love of it. Problem with that I see is if new people dont get involved soon the ones of us that keep this going are going to die out. At 39 years old I am one of the youngest riders in my club. In the 3 other clubs that I ride in quit often I still am one of the youngest riders. Guess that is enough rambling for now. Want to thank you folks for your ideas and opinions. Its nice to be able sit at home and gather info from around the world with almost no effort on my part. That alone speaks volumes about the problem our little sport faces. Aaron

CONFIRMED!!!!

Im am always surprised when people give trials a shot and soon after quit. I have seen it a number of times. One of the biggest reasons I believe this happens, especially with younger riders, is almost no one can just get on these bikes and go ride at a higher level. If you ride a motorcycle at all and are completely brain dead you are more than welcomed to take a motocross bike to a track and attack the biggest jump there. Im not saying there is no skill there but the only thing stopping you is fear and common sense. With trials most people have a hard time keeping the bike upright with there feet on the pegs there first few times out. People just dont like putting in the effort. They want instant gratification. I have worked with some quite good motocross riders in the past that were sure they could just hop on a bike and be a very good trials rider. Didnt happen and very soon they gave up do to the fact they didnt like riding in a sport where the novice sections were kicking there butt. Trials is a building skills sport. You cant Zap and Splatter if you dont understand how to unload the suspension properly. You cant ride over much of an obstacle if you cant unload the suspension properly. Clutch and brake control are so important to section success combined with the fact a motorcycle just wants to fall over when they go slow.... You have to learn the basics in trals to have any success at the higher levels. If you dont learn the basics you wont be able to get your bike out in the woods to where the really cool stuff to ride is. I just dont see any way around it with trials, its a patient and thinking mans sport. There is not as much instant gratification as with many other sports we compete with. Hard to grow a sport like that in a country that wants everything right now and is not all that interested in putting in the work to get it.

For the last 3 years I have been doing my best to ride other clubs events. On top of meeting a bunch of great people it has given me a chance to observe the trends past NYS. Not to my surprise, or anyone else Im thinking, attendance is dropping in a big way. Now with a substantial bump in AMA insurance and less riders to cover costs I have to wonder where our sport stands... How much is too much to pay for a local event? We can all just raise membership costs and event prices but Im worried that will turn Dad and his 2 kids away. If it costs him 100 bucks in entry fees maybe little league is looking a lot better. Cant afford to turn away any youth. In all the places I ride the average age is pushing well beyond 40. Anyway, just wondering if any of your clubs out there have been growing? Are you able to attract and keep youth riders? Are the bulk of your organizers under 45? Aaron

I have done 2. 04 and a 06. Take bike apart to bare frame. 320 grit on a DA sander and finish up with hands in spots the DA cant get. Buff out with proper polishing compound and wheel. Looks great all back together. More work keeping it lookin good after use.. Aaron

Happen to know the specs for the valve lash?

Looks great Jim, see ya Sunday!

They are "the other ones". If only I had a clue how to spell their name. How might one reach Steve Goode? Thanks Guys.