rusty ken

I am a novice who has only recently returned trials after 30+ years away form the sport, and have been riding a heavyweight 350 Matchless in local club events, so I probably fall into one of the categories of rider you are trying to encourage back out. My local club trials also attract a number of twin shock entries. The Matchless has a Bamford frame, alloy rims, and modern rear shocks, so would fall into the proposed "modified" class. Whilst I agree with previous comments that a modified cub, C15, etc is more than capable of tackling the same obstacles as a twin shocker, to suggest that I would ride the same sections on my heavyweight is laughable. I'm sure there are some experienced riders who could pilot a pre unit around the sections set for the twin shockers, but I for one don't think that it would be much fun, and would be leaving my pre-unit in the garage and either looking for a more modern bike or just abandoning the sport. Similar to mentions in some of the earlier posts, I look for events that I will enjoy and that will provide a bit of a challenge but that won't kill me. I agree with the earlier suggestion that sections should be set to allow almost every rider to paddle through for a 3, but understand that sections will be set to take marks off the top riders. If these riders are on twin shocks and modified lightweights (2 stroke or 4 stroke) my hopes of an enjoyable day on my heavy weight pretty much disappear. Given the apparent fall in entries from riders on pre unit bikes I may not be alone in this opinion. I share the view mentioned earlier that I'm not particularly interested in the scores of the top riders, rather how I compare to friends at a similar level, and in having a good day's sport. If it was only about being competitive than I'd buy a modern bike and go and compete! If we want to see pre unit British bikes at classic trials, then there needs to be a class for them, with suitable sections (the easy route?). Otherwise the future is twin shock classes which can include heavily modified "Britshocks". As a final thought, as the twin shock class develops and these bikes are developed and modified, and the sections become more challenging, will Britshocks still be competitive or are they on their way to becoming the pre-unit heavyweights of tomorrow?

Got to agree with Woody, I don't get the split between Japanese and Italian vs Spanish and British, except to make it easy to police. Also agree about the lack of a pre unit class (is this not the type/spirit of bike that classic trials was invented for?) There should probably be an explanation of "Britshock"; without some definition, if I wanted a more competitive bike can I take a pre '72 engine from any British bike (including two stroke?) and build it into a specialist frame that "looks" like something that was "suitable for the class", and where are the limits for this given that a "Btitshock" class didn't exist? Seams you can do whatever modifications you want as long as externally it looks like something period. I worry the focus of the series is gradually moving to twinshock, (understandably) at the expense of more traditional machines, and that your are welcome to join in if your "Britshock" has been modified enough to get around sections set for twinshocks. And on that happy note, I'm off to look on ebay for a Fantic, anyone interested in pre-Britshock Matchless?

Thanks for all the suggestions. Having worked through everything I finaly swapped out the carb body, which seems to have solved the problem. I think this implies a blockage in some of the internal air/fuel ways, just need ti find where, but it may be the push I need to buy a new premier! Thanks again for all the comments.

I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice or pointers on how to solve a carburation problem on my and#39;53 350 matchless which is fitted with a 26mm MK1 concentric carb. The bike had been running fine but I started having problems on her last outing when she started 8-stroking and "hesitating" when I opened the throttle. My initial optimistic thought was she was running rich due to a combination of higher altitude and exceptionally warm weather. The problem was still there when I got her home, and on further examination I found the nuts holding the carb to the manifold (head) had loosened a little, and that she was drawing air (weak rather than rich???). I've since had the carb off and refitted to solve this. It also seemed like a good time to fit an air filter.... Needles to say if that had solved the problems I wouldn't be writing this. I'm now in the position that the bike will start and will tick over as long as the throttle is completely closed. As soon as I open the throttle a whisker, the engine dies. If I let the engine warm up I can coax her past the initial hesitation (with difficulty) and get a few more revs and it runs fine, but when I she goes back to idle there is still a big hesitation just as I start to lift the slide. This makes her impossible to ride in a section, as every time you open the throttle from idle she either hesitates (dies) or stalls. I've checked the timing, points (magneto with manual advance/retard), plug, and tappets, all of which appear fine. I've screwed the air filter off, but it doesn't solve the problem. I've replaced the needle and needle jet with new items, and have tried adjusting out the mixture (raising/lowering the needle, larger/smaller needle jet, larger cutaway slide). This has had an effect on running, but hasn't solved the hesitation problem. I've gone back to the needle, needle jet, and slide that were originally fitted. I have a few ideas on where to look next and am hoping to get a concerted block of garage time in the next couple of days, but I'm starting to grasp at straws and any help or opinions on possible causes or solutions would be most welcome. Thanks.

Hi Dave, I started with a similar collection of parts a few years ago, with the same idea of putting together a trials bike. I've limited garage time so its taken a while to put her together, but I managed to get her out in a couple of local trials last year. You shouldn't have any problems getting parts; Steve at AMC Classic Spares has been a great, as has the AJS & Matchless owners club. Mick Ash supplied wide ratio gears, the kick-start is from Terry Weedy, the seat from Sammy Miller Products, and the rear brake drum from Progressive Classic Products, She is still a work in progress, over the winter I swapped out the road frame, oil tank, and engine plates with a kit from Andy Bamford, and there are plans for continued development. There are very few classics never mind heavy-wieghts being ridden in my area, which means she's about 50 years older than the rest of the entry at local club trials (I ride the sportsman route). She does get noticed and generate a fair bit of conversation, but maybe there's added entertainment value in watching the idiot trying to ride it. I'd highly recommend that you go for it. I really enjoy riding a "proper" classic (no comments about the modern shocks, handlebars, and levers please), and have no interest in swapping to a modern bike. If I were to offer a word of caution, be aware that costs can mount up, especially if you want to "modernise" to current pre65 spec with fiddle forks, Whitton hubs, etc, but if you do the build in easy stages you can add the upgrades when time and money allow.

Hi GSM, I previously have adopted spen's suggestion, and used two old top fork bushes as spacers (on the top of the fork springs). Alternatively you can us the two rebound springs from the bottom of the forks. It might not be as good a result as bespoke springs, made but it's likely to cheaper and easier, and works ok on mine.

it definately encourages you to keep bringing out that heavyweight British 4 stoke, dosen't it?

Andy should be able to supply what you are looking for, but if you have the time why not make your own plates? Andy's are the same as standard, without the dynamo hole, and with a couple of extra holes to route the oil pipes through. They are the same guage, so the engine bolts still work ok. The central oil tank has some weight adantages, but is a bit of a pain to fit. Until changing to one of Andy's frames I had been running with the standard tank with a cut out to suit a high level pipe, which worked really well.

When surfing the web and reading some of the posts in this forum, there seems to be a tendency for contributers to return to the thorny issue of machine eligibility for "classic" and/or "pre 65" trials. Being just a little too young to qualify as "pre 65" myself, I was interested to find the programme and the results for the 1965 Hurst Cup trial on the Knock Motorcycle Club web site, and thought I'd share it here (http://www.knockmotorcycleclub.co.uk/ClubHistory/Hurst1965Program.pdf and http://www.knockmotorcycleclub.co.uk/ClubHistory/Hurst1965Results.pdf). "The Hurst" is one of the longest standing trials in Northern Ireland. Having first been held in 1930 it became a British National round in 1947, it was an FIM European championship round from 1970 to 1974, and was a FIM world round from 1975 to 1981. Given its standing there is an illustrious list of winners including; Stanley Woods, Fred Rist, Billy Nicholson, Johnny Brittain, Sammy Miller (13 times, 8 on GOV 132), Mick Andrews, Martin Lampkin, Yrjo Vesterinen, Bernie Schriber, and Eddie Lejeune. According to the 1965 programme there were 59 entries. Given the loss of its British National standing these were mostly local riders, but there are some names that would be recognised more widely including Mr S H Miller, and an entry from BSA Birmingham. The surprising thing for me was that more than two thirds of the field were riding two strokes or lightweights, with less than 10 entries on what I would have naively thought of as the usual "pre 65" bike, i.e. a 350 or 500cc pre-unit 4 stroke heavyweight. With that in mind, it would suggest that many of todays largest "pre 65" events, and perhaps the classic scene, are actually favouring the heavyweight 4 strokes more than they deserve, and perhaps there should be more recognition of the number of lightweights that were actually competing at the time. I do however note that while there were plenty of entries riding Greeves, Dot, and smaller BSAs and Triumphs, but there were no "James" entries... At the risk of becoming all "thought for today"... Perhaps my point is that if we want to promote "classic" trials then we need to move the discussion away from eligibility dates, and to accept that those wishing to be competitive will enter a lightweight. This will of course mean that that courses will be set to challenge the lightweight machines, making it more difficult for mortals that still choose to enter a heavyweight. But if we want to continue to see traditional heavyweight bikes used in anger then we need to encourage and support clubs and championships that include a "pre unit" class and set more traditional sections.

The clutch on my 350 Matchless has seen better days. It is starting to slip and could do with a new set of plates. Given the price of new plates, this would be an appropriate time to upgrade the whole clutch. The current approach seems to be to fit a jawa clutch. I've never had any problems with the original, is it worth changing, and if so what is the best option!

You might get a little interest from this side of the Irish Sea. There aren't many classic only events in Northern Ireland, so most outings are on the clubman or sportsman route along with twin shocks and moderns. I've been keeping an eye on the classic calendar for GB but most events are just too far away. I'd certainly be interested in a couple of pre 65 events that I could reach in Scotland.

I think we have gone well past the initial intention of pre 65 trials, where you could have an outing on your bike which was no longer competitive enough to get around the sections set for Spanish two strokes (absolutely no disrespect intended!). To build a competitive pre-unit bike I'd expect the following ball park figures; frame, swinging arm, foot rests, etc £1,500 engine, gearbox & clutch £2,000 hubs, rims, etc £1,000 forks & yokes £1,000 ignition £ 500 tank £ 500 and add another £500 for little extras, like bars, levers, mudguards and stays, etc. which adds up to £7K! I've no doubt that you can do it cheaper. I've put my Matchless together for less than £2k and had a lot of fun building it and doing a few trials, but I need to be realistic about what it can do and my chances of getting through all of sections!

An English man goes into a pub... there is usually an Irish man, a Welsh man and a scots man with him, but they're still at the World Cup.

It's reassuring to hear that others have similar experiences in dealing with their DVA applications. Having registeted a '48 Matchless road bike last year with no problems, I restarted the process for my '54 trials Matchless. I spoke to DVA and the guy agreed that if I included a SORN with the rest of the paperwork that I didn't need insurance. Unfortunately, if the deal sounds too good it probably is, and 10 days later I got all the documents returned with a note requiring insurance. When I returned the docs with insurance everything went fine, and my V5 arrived a week later. I agree the whole process can be very frustrating, but if you are patient you can get through it!

Sounds like a good project. Don't know if it's any help, but the heavyweight 350s work with a 26mm carb. You might have fun getting the gearing down...

at risk of offending.... An English man and a Welsh man are walking in the countryside when they find a sheep with it's head stuck in a fence. The Welsh man approaches the poor animal from behind, drops his trousers and proceeds to take full advantage. When he'ss finished he turns to the English man and says 'your turn'. The English man steps up, drops his trousers, and then bends over and sticks his head through the fence....

I found these photos while surfing for some pre65 info and thought they might be of interest; http://niclassicscramblesclub.com/gallery3/index.php/old-pictures/Ken-McClure-s-Collection/Trials. They are from events in Northern Ireland during the late '50s, but they include a few well known names and stars of yesteryear. Obviously the world has moved on in the last 60 years, but I would expect that many of the bikes in the photos would still have been in use up to our 'pre65' cut off? I wonder how many of these would be considered to be anywhere near competitive in todays pre65 events, and how many of us would consider building or bringing out a similar bike?

I expect these are for your rigid project. Stop tinkering and buy the zb32, you know you want to.

As an ongoing trials project I have been riding and working on a and '54 G3LS. I've recently converted to an all alloy engine, and as the next step I'm looking to make a few changes to the road based frame. As I am sure you will understand, I'm looking to steepen the angle of the steering head, and to swap the standard heavyweight swinging arm for the later lightweight version. I believe there used to be instructions for the swinging arm confersion posted on the AMOC site , but havn't been able to find them. Can anyone provide details of the best way to swap the swinging arms? Is it a case of changing the pin in the swinging arm, or do I need to alter the width between the bearings in the frame as well/instead? What is the best way to address the difference in pin diameter? Has anyone tried an excentric bearing to further shorten the wheelbase? Are there any pointers to make sure that it all lines up? Has anyone used taper roller bearings for this? Any advice gratefully received.

Maybe it's the treatment that is making him shy away from having shocks.

I've got to agree witha lot of thecomments above, especially in respect of the ever growing cost of getting a pre 65 bike together. I started with a pile of Matchless G3 parts that included a 54 frame and yokes, fork legs, tanks, non runner of an engine, road gearbox, and ods and sods. It took about 18 months and not much short of £2k before I had something that would get me around a trial. A lot of parts are easily obtained if you have enough money, and it can be cheeper if you are prepared to wait for the right deal. As others have suggested, what I have is still a work in progress. The biggest problem is that I'm still using a modified road frame. I've a full alloy engine, and trials gearing from Mick Ash. Whels are BHC from a Greeves with alloy rims, plastic guards, Ariel seat, Alloy tank, Domino bars and levers, decent back shocks and standard front end with allow top yoke. It would have been a lot easier to buy a modern or a twin shock, and for similar money I could have got a very clean bike. But there is a tremendous amount of satisfaction creating your own bike, and getting through sections the some struggle through on modern bikes. I intend to keep working on my project, (a special frame is next on the list) and to keep having fun riding it in any local trials that I can get to. I don't know if what I have is a 'proper' pre 65, or a ' Britshock' or whatever, or if I would get my money back if I was to sell her, but meantime I'm having great fun riding a bike that is probably 15 years older than anything else at my local events, and that seams to be appreciated by lots of spectators and other riders. As others have suggested, it's all about finding a bike that you can have fun on.

As a novice I have been dragging a pre 65 around the C class at the last couple of mototrial ni events, and can't recommend them highly enough. The focus is on a good day's fun, the venues have been great, the sections are manageable, and everyone is very friendly and helpful. Since the club started there has been a huge increase in interest with over 150 bikes of all classes at the last event. If you are going to be in NI then I'd definately recommend that you give it a go.

Hi Folks, Thanks for your comments on the engine idea. I had no plans to build a short stroke engine, despite the positive comments from Don Morley. But I am interested in an early bottom end, with the lighter road flywheels, paired into an alfin barrel with an alloy head. The only remaining issues are which rod to use; the long early rod or the shorter later rod, and what bore to use. Seems that the easiest answer is to use the long rod with a BSA piston? So its good to hear that in principal it works ok. For sparks I`m using a refurbished lucas wader, but am seriously considering a new digital BTH, even if they are a bit pricey.

I'm seeking opinion on the best options for a Matchless engine. Is there any benefit in using the older 350 bottom half of the engine? It is smaller, lighter, and the smaller flywheels may suit modern sections better. Has anyone tried this with the later shorter con rod, which should give better torque? Or is there a better option?

The bike looks great, just rubs in how much I need to do to mine. How about cardinal red for the tank, VW malaga red L30C is supposed to be a good match and easy to get. Good luck on Saturday.