heffergm

Stop and hop, maybe not, but stops... if you call them like the brits here seem to want to, I count about a million that weren't called. Of course it varies by section (observer):

Yeah, that seemed a little odd, but otherwise I loved it. I've re-watched all the available rounds like half a dozen times!

I think the time limit in indoors has been great. I love that it's clear cut... no more time per section, then some mysterious number of penalty points if you're over. I also love that the time limit is for all the sections combined, rather than per section, so now you can employ some strategy. It's also a lot more physical for the riders than it was before, and whether it's that, the section design, or whatever, the young kids are really killing it indoors. Gelabert, Bincaz, Busto, all fantastic finishes this year. Even Farré looked good before he got hurt, Marcelli almost beat Ferrer on his debut. Good stuff. The promoter did a really great job with the section design, the venue lighting, etc as well. If you go watch old indoor rounds, they look horrible in comparison. I'm really looking forward to the next indoor season to start. FYI, a lot of last season is available on Livestream (search for 'xtrial').

Yeah... that was my point about 8 pages ago. No one seems to get it (except you! Progress!)

It's been a while since I rode a GG 300, but I ride a 280 at present. GG doesn't sell a bike with anything other than a Keihin on it at the moment. I think if you like a 250 but want just a bit more torque, which I appreciate especially given the 4/5 gearing on the GG, the 280 is great. It's more like a 250+ rather than a 300- if that makes any sense. You really need to try both though, I'm sure you can scrounge up a test ride.

Great, so the UK did. Japan doesn't. The US is a crapshoot. And still none of them score according to the UK's concept of no stop, which may or may not be what the rules actually call for. This entire debate might explain why I love indoor and am starting to not give two f's about outdoor...

If by made up you mean "watched the majority of other checkers at various events and see how they call things and use that as a guide", then yes, I've made up my own rules. There's no sum that can buy me off, I'm a free bird.

You guys keep skirting around this: If the governing body really wants rigorous enforcement of any set of rules as they deem appropriate, they can pay a dedicated group of observers to so do. Rigorous enforcement of any complex set of rules by groups of volunteers from disparate backgrounds across the globe cannot be expected to do that. What's more, you can't expect to hold them accountable for anything because again, they're volunteers. If I'm scoring a world round section and decide to not enforce rule XYZ, what recourse does the FIM have? None. If I'm paid by the FIM, they can fire me and find someone to do the job the way they want it done. Can anyone else come up with a professional global sport where the umpires/referees/line judges/etc are volunteers? I can't think of one. I think you either need to accept some level of variability with this setup we've got, or do what I've suggested and open up the coffers.

I will take this moment to mention that I get to ride there every week... That is all

Yeah. No doubt all the observers out there volunteering their time are out to destroy the sport.

Sport 7 asked that it be investigated. The rest is promoter public relations speak. I've not heard that the FIM is in fact doing anything.

Lol. That was what was supposed to happen when the rule was first instituted. It didn't, and its been a steady backpedaling from adhering to it in any strict manner. And here we are. If you really want to try again, you must be the eternal optimist (which to be honest would be a welcome relief around here). Personally I don't see bothering. I don't want no stop rules, I want modern riding in modern sections. I also don't want the onus of deciding what is and isn't a stop on the checkers, because I think it's too difficult a call to make with any sort of consistency, which is largely in my opinion what has led to the current state of 'soft observance' of the no stop rule. That, and the fact that modern riding means stopping, and I'm not even talking for hits. Here's a good one: https://youtu.be/nbiVKXKolLU?t=46s Did he stop? Didn't he stop? That's not even the point. The point is, WHO THE EFF CARES if he stopped? I sure don't. Run the same sections with a 90 second time limit. Forward, backwards, left, right... makes no difference to me if you make your gates and don't cross your line.

As I recall that S3 cover wasn't meant to be just a cover, it was part of a kit that had something to do with modifying the clutch.

I meant the riding style. If you really think modern trials should just be the ssdt, we're never going to get along

Ummm... while the rules, more or less, might be the same, the riding has most certainly changed. I'm not particularly interested in seeing it revert. In any event, as to the original topic, I hold Grattarola blameless. From all accounts he did all he could that day, which was win, and I haven't seen it suggeted that his score was anything other than totally above board. As to the rest of what happened, it's a shame. Hopefully it gets sorted in some fashion.

Not all of us want 1972 back.

nod

Huh... never really heard that offered up, but it's not a bad idea. The problem is that without a time limit in the section, once you're on a 3, presumably you could then stop for eternity.

It was a randomly selected amount of time that 'feels' right Not much more to it than that. Basically, it seems like observers have been put in this position of being the arbiter of what's a stop and what isn't, when no one can really seem to agree, regardless of what the rules say. So I'd prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the rider and give a solid grace period before nailing him for a stop.

I'll be honest, I basically wouldn't call stops at all unless you're entirely motionless for a solid 3 count, or you're stopped with a foot down. I realize this isn't to the letter of the rules. It is however how I see largely see the majority of observers interpreting the rule. Forward motion I could care less about... If that were enforced, every time a rider threw a nose wheelie it would be a five. If people really want no stop, section design needs to change.

Interestingly, I've heard it suggested that the original whistle on Marcelli wasn't for stopping at all, but for riding over a marker.

Well, the observers are (generally) all amateurs at best. A lot of the time they're just friends and family of amateur trials riders with little trials experience at all. Whether that's good or bad at the top level would bear some discussion. I think it's somewhat moot since it's unlikely that paying 12 (probably more like 20) professional observers to fly around the world is viable (if it was, I suspect they'd be doing it already). For indoor it's easy, you just need one guy.

I don't really look at it that way. To me T2 Is now the equivalent of Moto2 in GP. Youngsters come through the class, but you also get guys that are there long term, or who drop back from GP. I don't really envision there being any limit on the number of entries, so why not let anyone who can and wants to ride T2 do so. It'll allow guys who can't finish better than bottom of the barrel in the top class a place to be more competitive, and the kids coming up will either best them and move up, or stay and compete.

Well that's a different deal then. I can't say I blame him though. He's a volunteer and doesn't really want to be lynched. This is why football referees are professionals, they at least have some skin in the game. They can't go blowing calls based on biases or crowd reaction without losing their livelihood. I feel horrible for the guy. Anyone here who's checked a national or world round (I have) knows that there's a ton of pressure. It's not fun. Riders yelling at you is bad enough, having the crowd want your head is a bit over the top. I still don't think Marcelli stopped, but per the Sport7 press release, they mention the initial call for a stop was consistent with his scoring throughout the day, so good enough for me. Full disclosure, I sport an Italian passport

I still disagree (about him stopping). Be that as it may, I do agree that not respecting the observer's decision is a little ridiculous. I do however find them to be separate issues. Given the sequence of events though, I can't say I understand all the BS going around about this somehow coming down anything related to Italian observers, etc. Presumably the FIM officials are the same officials that are at every event. The (presumably italian) observer made a call in Toby's favor and got stuffed by the FIM. Well, there you go... blame the FIM. You can leave the national favoritism theory at the door.