ChrisCH

https://www.ngkntk.in/importance-of-heat-range/

Interesting study on E10 and various rubber/plastic etc here: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jfu/2014/429608/ There appears to be some effect with prolonged contact but it seems unlikely that most trials bikes would be affected. Really old bikes have brass carb floats and so on and metal tanks so are almost certainly fine. I think there is a lot of nonsense in circulation about this subject. All the same I will stick to my E5 V-Power the bike runs better with the higher octane rating. Interestingly in the US E85 is used as a very high octane fuel for racing cars. https://aaoil.co.uk/product/sunoco-e85r/

US ethanol is mostly made from Maize (corn) mostly to subsidise and prop up the dreadful US agrigulture industry that is heavily into GM Maize. The farming lobby is powerful in the US and definately looking for government money from any source. Of course the oil lobby groups don't want your car to run on maize but on fossil oil so the two lobby groups fight one another. What the optimum level of ethanol might be for the vehicle and for the planet is not really part of the considerations. Petrol is comlpex stuff with all manner of things in it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gasoline_additives

The super Esso is E5 that is why it says so. I also started to research this as the missus has a Ducati Monster and there was (and still is) a lot of BS on the internet about some bikes - the Monster being one - that don't run on E10. Firstly the Monster runs OK on E10 and has had several tankfuls of it. Second a lot of what one reads on the internet is written by nutters and climate change deniers, conspiracy theorists and so on. That is why a lot of it starts in the US. As best I can see the issue is that ethanol attracts water in a way that mineral based petrol does not. There appears to be actual science behind that and so it is probably true. For some materials, notably fibreglass that can be an issue. Fibreglass is a stupid material to make fuel tanks from and after a short time manufacturers stopped using it. Sadly (for us trials enthusiasts) the old Montesa had a fibre tank and was a good bike in every other respect. I have read plastic can "expand" due to ethanol or the water in it. I am unsure how that happens as plastic does not expand in water nor does it expand when exposed to ethanol. Virtually all modern vehicles have plastic tanks. The Ducati (and my TRS) have plastic tanks. If the claim was true why does the incremental increase from 5% to 10% have the effect? Surely the ethanol would have the same effect at any percentage big enough and 5 percent should be big enough? I have read that ethanol causes "deposits" on some surfaces. It does not as it is a volatile liquid. Or that it "melts" some components. It is easy to disprove these claims by immersing them in ethanol. If there really is a problem it would appear to me that it is the water issue. For us trials bike owners that is probably made worse by storing fuel in cans and in sheds. So it really makes some sense to avoid the issue by using a lower percentage (E5) fuel and this is fortunate that higher octane fuels are E5. Aspen has no ethanol but is 95 octane so too low for most bikes like my TRS. I have no idea where one would buy high octane Aspen (I think it is called "racing"?) Let's be honest no one does bar a few oddballs. So we have to deal with the reality that we will have to use E5. Since the racing world continues and thousands of people ride bikes throughout the world with no problems I feel it is fair to say there is not really an issue unless you have a vintage machine.

At present (as best I see) in the UK the E10 is only normal (95) unleaded. All the higher octane ratings are E5. The whole debate about ethanol is largely nonsense and the idea it is a problem is much over estimated for anyone with a modern (post 1980s) bike. Both the TRS and Beta I have ran badly on the old 95 E5 fuel and certainly the TRS seems much better on 99. So I use Shell V Power and it is still E5. I honestly doubt if the higher octane ratings fuels increase their ethanol it would have any effect on the bikes if I am honest. So I would suggest any issues you have are from the octane rating rather than the formulation of the petrol.

My view is that the cheaper end is overpriced compared to what it was. I agree totally with the post above, I also think it is likely to be a long wait for any change - if you have an old bike it is now worth more than you paid for it and people like that idea. Bikes three or less years old are not as bad. It is harder to get the higher price when a brand new bike is an alternative possibilty. (I have seen Beta Alp at more than new prices to overcome the waiting list though) If you can manage to get the budget buy the newer bike and you have a fair chance it will hardly depreciate as it ages.

Most tyre manufacturers suggest 50psi as maximum to seat a bead. At 100 or so there is a real risk of the rim failing. Lots of tyre soap and be gentle. Sometimes you can leave the tyre a few minutes and it will "creep" into position. Anything over 60psi and you seriously need to be in another building to the tyre.

You will regret not taking it !

Cool. I hope it is OK. The post above pretty much covers all the issues. I found the rear tyre rubbed a bit on the silencer can and that was a common problem IIRC. If the can is good just make sure it is spaced a little away from the wheel with a longer bolt and some washers. Again there is some good info in the old posts on the Beta forum. Feed it well with good clean fresh petrol and a top end oil - they don't use much so cheap crap is false economy. Nano Trans in the gearbox will help with the clutch stick too.

We bought a Rev 3 to share (me and missus). After a short while she hogged it all the time and so I bought the TRS. We upgraded her to the Evo shortly after. Apart from the issue of spares the main difference I notice with the Evo is it has better handling. The Rev needed fork compression to get the front wheel up and the Evo is much easier IMHO. Now to be 120% fair it is possible that the additional time and practice just mean I ride better and I am being unfair to the older bike. There is a guy at our club has a Rev 3 and rides very well so the bike certainly is capable. The real issue IMHO is the older the bike the more people have "repaired" it and so the more it is likely to be defective somehow. I am sure if you find a good, well looked after Rev 3 it will be better than a neglected Evo, but the odds are not in your favour. Our shared bike had a sawn up nail in the Mikuni carb to stop the flooding (read the Beta forum about that carb). Also the cold stick on the clutch was worse on the Rev. Not reasons to avoid one but just my experiences with the older bike.

How are you getting the wheel to lift at present? With a powerful 280cc engine the bike should lift the front wheel without any compression of the forks or any real effort at all. Just lean back a little to put your weight over the back axle and let the clutch out. You should be able to lift the front enough to go over a smallish obstacle from standing. Using the acceleration to lift will tend to get you to increase the throttle as the wheel lifts in the way you describe.

Cool. I can only add that I wish you every bit of luck possible in finding something nice at a good price. I also started on a 15 hundred budget and ended up with the TRS (£3,600) It has been a good purchase for me. There are still some nails about even at that price though.

This a thousand times. When you can ride really well then buy an old twin shock or similar (as well as the new bike) to entertain you and you will be able to ride it well.

If you have not ridden in trials before how can you know what is the "right" bike for you? If you ask other people they will tell you what is "right" for them and perhaps offer an opinion about "right" for you without meeting you or knowing you or ever seeing you ride any other bike. In your first post you said you had had bike for years (like me). I assume therefore you know to pull in the clutch and press the back brake and generally control a motorcycle? You know that the throttle will slow the engine down as well as speed it up? Yes, of course you do. A trials bike is no different in its controls than a road bike. A litre sportsbike is a handful on the road if you are not capable and confident. If you let your enthusiasm get the better of you a decent 250cc road bike will kill you. I honestly don't see any difference with trials machines. You need some experience to handle the more powerful bikes and (just like road bikes) the highest power (300cc) is almost certainly far more than you need. A 250cc trials bike from a mainstream brand - Beta, TRS, GasGas etc - will be fine for you and if (for some weird reason) you don't like it someone else will and you can sell it again easily. A 125cc is powerful enough but you need to rev it a bit harder (just like a small capacity road bike). Try to find something that is not an overpriced heap of junk that will take another handful of money to put right a fortnight after you buy it. Some old nail that pre covid would have been 200 notes and now is "a classic" at 15 hundred. There are plenty such money pits for sale on eBay right now. Whatever make, whatever cc, whatever year of manufacture the biggest challenge for you is your budget is not enough to move you out of the overpriced tat zone. The more you find it hard to buy anything half decent the more you will be tempted to buy some old junk that will need fixing. So in honesty, I would be much more worried about getting a good bike that will run OK and is in a good state of repair than worry about the brand or capacity.

Try to get a ride on a modern 250. I really cannot see why they are "too much".

When I first started looking you could get a decent Rev 3 for a grand. We traded ours in for £750 (2006 model) against the Evo (2104 £2300). The old Rev would now fetch the 15 hundred you quote and the Evo is probably now worth more than we paid for it three years ago. I bought the TRS for £3600 (2017) and it too is probably the same sort of money now from a dealer. (Bought from Lee & Sons) Personally I would cough a bit at paying nearly two grand for a 10 plus year old bike unless it was one of the "collectable" twin shocks. They too seem to be bonkers money now. As you say things were well cheap a few years back - I remember that too. So far on the TRS I have spend £25 for a wheel bearing replacement and that's it bar consumables. The carb has been off a few times and was mis-seated last time so the float bowl is wearing away and I have bought a new one for next time it is off, but that is hardly the bike's fault. The brakes are fantastic and lock the wheels up with the lightest touch, the clutch is easy and smooth and the power is not overwhelming for my very meagre talents. I have little doubt that other brands are as good. It was more than I wanted to spend but cannot say I regret it at all now.

UK bike prices have gone bonkers past lockdown. Whatever you look at will be much more than it was two years ago. I am seeing Rev3 on eBay at prices that are quite hard to understand if I am honest. Good as they are they are still old bikes that someone else will have beaten the crap out of over many years. I had to try not to think about it too much as I put the PIN in when I paid for the TRS, but to be fair it was a better purchase than the missus' Evo in terms of what work has been needed. If it is at all possible I would look round for a newer bike and grit your teeth and just accept that is the price.

Our club generally has a mix of old and new at most meetings. I don't think having a new or old bike would really restrict you much in terms of getting a ride. If you like fixing bikes, hunting auto jumbles for parts and machining up components you cannot buy any more than by all means get into older stuff. My dad was a mechanic and would have enjoyed all that stuff. I know people that do. If you want to ride, buy a new bike. My missus put her Beta through a fence when first learning. My TRS spat me off the back when I first bought it. Both those bikes have a device on the right hand side of the bars that you need to learn to control a bit better 😎 There's a bloke at our club who is 70 odd and new to the sport. I don't think age is much to do with anything. Buy what will give you the most fun. If you like fixing stuff fair play - buy something that will need frequent fixing. From my limited recent experience with trials and having had bikes in general for nearly 50 years I would go for something like the TRS 250 One or the Beta Evo 250 as a start point. I don't get the 125cc thing - they will scare you if you rev them hard enough same as the 250s.

I doubt age is the issue, more what a person's interests are. I like the X-Trial and would go to see it if the venue was near enough, but I would happily go watch the "traditional" trial as well. X-Trial is designed to be entertaining and a spectacle. I am sure most that watch it do not ride. What I cannot understand is why X-Trial is so popular elsewhere and not UK.

To me, if I am honest, that cuts both ways. Sure the 'traditional' outdoor is a better event (and surely there is a way round the possible contamination of waterways issue?) but bringing things into an indoor stadium with artificial obstacles increases the potential venues. Either there are enough people here in the UK that would pay to see it or there are not. I can't decide. I would pay but that doesn't tell you anything much - only about me.

I have just cancelled my hotel booking for the event. For me it was a tough decision to go because it is a long long drive up and so half the weekend is in the car not watching the riders. To build on @baldilocks point why not have the event in the South? (I know, I know - howls of protest from the northerners - sorry chaps) The advantage of the higher population density and larger number of people potentially interested is worth a debate. I think perhaps there are more people as a percentage interested in trials in the more northern parts of the country, but more numerically in the south. If the issue is getting a return on the time and investment for the organisers then does the south not make more sense? The UK now has no GP and no X-Trial.

Everything I have read suggests that the Ethanol absorbs water and that is the main problem. I think your experience shows this to be true. Diesel suffers microbial growth if there is too much bio content. My road bike is stored under cover and in a warehouse where it does not freeze. I have no issues with the fuel in it. If you are storing in sub-zero conditions i think it might be wise to empty the tank or put a small amount of Aspen in just for the winter. (I once left a VFR for a long time and it gelled up - pre Ethanol fuel at the time) I would appreciate any feedback on the effect of the two stroke oil in the cold. (In E10)

E10 is OK for most vehicles and the main objection seems to be from people on the internet that give anecdotes rather than evidence. The issue is clouded by people that have an agenda other than just offering their experiences. My GSX runs fine on E10 and it runs fine on Sainsburys petrol. The marketing effort to get you to waste money on fuel is impressive and largely dishonest. My TRS runs better on Shell V Power, but it is a "performance" engine, not a road tuned vehicle. Or maybe it is my imagination? Whatever. Since it only burns a few litres a year and it feels to me that it is running better I will continue to buy a 5L can of V Power now and then. The car, van and road bikes get filled up at the supermarket. Our last van (Transit) did 200,000 miles on supermarket diesel and never missed a beat. What I have found out for sure is if you do enough research (on E10 and fuel generally) and read enough on the internet you can find two diametrically opposing points of view expressed with equal conviction and convincing supporting evidence.

OK - I am a bit thick here. What difference does the sprocket make? The forces on the hub are the same irrespective of the format of the sprocket surely?

The Euro 5 standards are just coming in for bikes (https://www.acem.eu/new-euro-5-environmental-standard-for-motorcycles-and-mopeds-to-enter-into-force-in-2020) As best I understand it type approval is not required for competition machines and so trials bikes do not need to comply. Not sure about the exact details. Micky is right about the Sachs and again my understanding is they are not designed to be rebuilt but there are repairers that can do (here in Europe anyway). https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sachs/products/cars-and-vans/sachs-performance/repair-service/ You can view the drawing of the latest Beta exhausts in the partfinder - https://www.beta-uk.com/index.php?route=common/partsfinder - there is no cat in it. [edit] The gas-gas also has no cat - it is not a requirement for Euro5. I cannot find what they have actually done to meet the standards on their website. I guess it must actually meet it for them to publicise it.