old trials fanatic

trials riders are like sheep but watch the experts and they can see a line where mere mortals would just follow the crowd.

Whats wrong with Renthals apart from they dont do 7" lift anymore ?

I know i was there. It's not what you ride it's the way that you ride it.

So where do you draw the line Charlie? Fantic engine in a Bantam frame with gas gas forks but Cub wheels and tank and alloy mudguards ? would that be ok? mostly British or would a Bantam engine in a fantic frame with TY forks and wheels be more preferable. Just asking mate because as Ross says there should be a line surely.

Thank you John but i am still left wondering where are we at this moment in time? This year we had the opportunity to run a road trial but i turned it down not because of MSA approval because it was just before all this blew up but if i was offered the chance again until i knew EXACTLY what i would be required to do the answer would be most definately no. I am sure there must be many organisers out there thinking the same and thank you again for doing your best to explain the situation but as of today i, dont know about anybody else, am still none the wiser what i would need to do to obtain MSA approval and after reading Petes posts i dont even know if it would be practical or possible to jump through every hoop. I am sure as soon as you know you, or someone else from the governing bodies, will inform us but this is a sad state of affairs for Trials as we know it in this country. I await the outcome if any with interest.

Theres a bloke rides a rigid bantam at our trials who regularly beats all comers on twinshocks and even air cooled monos so agree with Woody. Damn theres another excuse gone

Wow now that looks a real honey. Beautiful i love the Yamaha Roberts Racing colours.

Use what you like but if you ever try to ride the scottish p65 2 day you will probably have probs at scrutineering. Leading axle methinks. Think you will find it's been tightened up since i think it was Calvert won with leading axle forks on a cub.

Thing is if you set a sensible time limit on a section which should be surely no longer than 20 secs max then you are effectively riding no stop anyway. Then again you could alternatively have very short sections say begins card 1 bike length a step and 1 bike length to end card and this would have to be for all sections otherwise a time limit cant be fair. Make for a pretty tight car park style course though

Just had an e mail from the AMCA stating their point of view on this and after reading the MSA exemption clauses i tend to stand with Pete on this one. Unless road trials become radically different from how we know it, assuming you want to follow the law and not leave yourself open, you will have to get MSA approval. Main stumbling block that i can see, all the others could be circumnavigated, is the fact that all competitors are required to visit the same places i.e. sections and that all competitors must comply with the highway code. The route the competitor takes could be left to them but it would not be good enough just to state the onus is on the competitor to comply with the law and the highway code as in "exhibts good road behaviour and compliance with the highway code." You can have a finish point and time but route markings and or a prescribed route require you to have MSA authourisation. Then finally of course "ALL must have tax, insurance and a valid mot if required and riders observe road traffic law at all times while using the public highway." As i said not good enough anymore to pass the onus onto the riders as in "it's the riders responsibility" etc. Of course this is only if you want to use the MSA exemption get out clause. OK it's took them 44 years to decide to enforce it so we cant say they didnt give us plenty of time to sort our selves out but as i read it they've got us fair and square. As CoC i wouldnt put my house on the line for it because it would be my ar5e that gets bit and you wouldnt see the entrants for dust if they dropped on the organiser. as usual you'd be on your own. No at the end of the day Pete is right. Perhaps it is the death knell of road trials. Well at least we had a good innings eh ?

Bloody hell you yanks are so lucky. The carriage alone would cost more than that over here. Id be amazed if you could get them in the UK for under £300 and all that for a set of forks that would be "illegal" at a lot of clubs.Obviously much easier and cheaper in the US with their rules.

Sorry guys but i refer you to my previous posts. It definately seems that the noose is tightening and they are going to bury organisers with paperwork until they suffocate or just give up. How many riders will now be thinking "if plod is going to be there and all over us like a rash is it worth the risk?" ok your bike "may" have been "legal" when it got m.o.t.'d assuming it's over 3 years old but i bet nick nick can find something that will cost you points especially once it's covered in mud or you have just spread some on the road. I think Pete is bending over backwards to comply and good on him for doing so but after reading all this i am so glad i turned down the chance to run a road trial. I cant see it can result in anything but a financial loss to an organising club and a mental breakdown to the poor sod that has the unenviable job of trying to comply with the mountain of paperwork.

Just advise me how much would a B50 front end cost in good condition like yours? Your points are valid but most clubs would not like a TY front wheel or rear for that matter.

What do i think of the Pirellis ? Crap.you'd be better off with worn Michelins than new Pirellis. Theyre only any good for road bikes or for selling a bike on flea bay to say it's got new tyres. Then again if you know about trials you would argue the price down cos you would need new tyres.

A pair of hubs and the forks modified assuming you supply the forks and the Norton sliders wont leave you any change from £800 then you need the wheels building up spindles making and of course fork yokes and dont forget the frame mods and at least electronic ignition. Now you see why a decent Pre65 Cub will set you back £5000 and thats for a used example.

Perhaps they consider it a Classic ? Funny how to some of us Honda TLM is a "modern" bike and to others it's an old "Classic"

Perhaps they feel if they can discourage by burying people with needless red tape they will not bother and thats another "issue" delt with for their rambling mates of the cheif constable. Must be nigh on impossible in Wales with their bike hating Welsh chief constable.

Fact of life i'm afraid in our area there are 3 Classic clubs plus numerous other clubs catering for moderns who for financial reasons have added twinshock and p65 classes. There are only 52 Sundays in a year and one of them is knocked out due to rememberance day. The calander soon fills up and most of us are trying to avoid clashes with local clubs never mind "big" events. Just how it is.

nice work.

Well said and smack on. If 3 experts decide not to ride at a trial but the club gains 4 Clubmen then the Club and Trials as a whole including the dealers are much better off. Remember experts dont buy anything but the Clubman does. Experts are always scrounging whatever whereas Clubmen spend their hard earned on their passion. The dealers need turnover to survive otherwise there wont be any dealers or manufacturers for that matter. What the sport needs is to get back to an entry thats passionate about the sport the same way most of us are. If you and take your ball away over something as small as riding non stop youre not commited to the sport anyway and it was probably just a passing phase.Trials to most of us is a way of life not a freak show. Let the Pros do what they want if they can make it pay then whatever like 99% of riders give a damn. We have too many other thing trying to bring an end to Trials riding non stop or stop allowed pales into insignificance when compared to land access issues.

Brilliant video Martin. If the non stop haters bother to watch all the ingredients are there for a spectacular ride non stop over a lot of that terrain. I just wish people would get their head around the concept. It's all about the course setter rethinking what they lay out and stop taking the easy option. I've always believed as a course setter you should lay out sections that make riders think with their head not their balls.

Thats the problem in a nutshell. 221 riders. So even if you assume that all 221 riders buy a new bike every year would you base your business plan on that size of potential market ? If the number of particepants doesnt grow massively and quick then thats it. We have had stop allowed in it's many variations and we have now arrived at where we are today with impossible sections and miniscule entries and it's only going to get worse if nothing is done. If it's the end for trials then so be it nothing lasts forever but at least some people are trying to do something.

thats why he was my best man.

You are getting old LOL

Just had the ACU newsletter e mailed, they still send it to me even though we are now AMCA, and looks like the ACU have finally no doubt due to "pressure" decided to look into this. Only took them 43 years but what do you expect? even took a pop at the AMCA stance of "let sleeping dogs lie" which is a bit rich after 43 years. Question would it really be the end of the world if everybody drove to a group of sections then put the bike back in the van or trailer and drove to the next set etc? as andat says perhaps we just have to adopt different practices to preserve the sport we love?