davieboy Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I'm just back from a great weekend at the Nostalgia. There was a converted mono ty Yam riding in the twinshock class.This is the first one I have seen. Are they common down south? I'm not one for total originality etc but surely this is a step too far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 There are a few around and I dont normally make a fuss about things,but I think its well out of order.There are plenty of twinshock TY250's around for very reasonable money,and are excellent as a standard bike.The people who ride the converted bikes are only kidding themselves and annoying everyone else - its just not in the spirit of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Total rubbish, why should it be frownd upon to ride a converted bike. how standard are the bike you see in the pre 65 at the scottish? neil gaunts ariel ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieboy Posted August 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Total rubbish, why should it be frownd upon to ride a converted bike. how standard are the bike you see in the pre 65 at the scottish?neil gaunts ariel ect. The pre-65 arguement has been done to death. I think this is different.This is taking a bike from a different class altogether,bolting on 2 shocks,removing the mono and calling it a twinshock. What will be next,maybe a Scorpa sy175 with shocks bolted on and call it a twinshock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 Just as in most things there are two opposing camps. In this case we have the one camp which is the "in the spirit of the day" in which the bikes should represent a historically snapshot of what was ridden in the specified timeframe. This is epitomized by the philosophy espoused (especially in MX and to some degree trials) by AHRMA. The other camp is the "spirit of the rules" which believe that as long as the bike follows the written rules it is ok. For example no matter how the bike came to be as long as it has twin shocks it's ok. There are valid arguments for both groups. There has to be a balance between historical accuracy and practicality. If you insist on historically accurate you will get minimal participation, which isn't always practical from a financial point. Hence the dilemma. This particular case presents an interesting situation, as the TY mono was (please correct me if I'm wrong) available at the same time as other twin shock bikes. I think I'd rather discuss which oil ratio or tire to use, than the "legality" of such a bike in certain organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I considered doing this in my early days here on TC and was rightfully kicked up the a*** for thinking about it. (no names) I have done a lot of trials since and obviously understand why it is not "in the spirit etc". I have only ever seen one at a trial and to be fair the rider is a good rider and didn't need to do it. He now rides a very nice Majesty. It wouldn't bother me but I can understand why it would bother the better t shock riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 This particular case presents an interesting situation, as the TY mono was (please correct me if I'm wrong) available at the same time as other twin shock bikes. Doesn't matter, it's not a twinshock, end of the argument. TY monos destroy twinshocks in sections, they are far better in all respects as a mono and don't lose too much of that advantage with two shocks welded on. People who do it are missing the point. 99% of the time people are riding twinshocks as they have some affinity with a particular model or marque, probably the bike they rode back then or the bike they wanted to ride but couldn't afford. Now they just want to enjoy riding them again, either instead of or alongside their modern bike. Or maybe they weren't around back then and just prefer classic trials to modern. Converted monos are for one reason only, to gain an advantage to try and clean up in a twinshock class - why else. Forget 'spirit of the event', it's just plain cheating. It's impossible to have any affinity for the bike as it never existed as a twinshock. If people want a competitive twinshock to win on, one they have no particular connection to or history with, they should just buy a 240 Fantic, the best 'out of the box' twinshock there is. If people like the mono, whatever the make, then ride it as a mono on a suitable route in any suitable trial, so what if there isn't a specific class, being out on the bike is what matters. Why do people think it's acceptable to convert a TY Mono? By the same reasoning it's acceptable to do it to a GasGas Raga Rep or a 4RT. Someone I know tried to get an entry into the Nostalgia classic trial with his Seeley but couldn't because it was full - with two places having gone to an aircooled mono and a mono converted to twinshocks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshdave Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Doesn't matter, it's not a twinshock, end of the argument. TY monos destroy twinshocks in sections, they are far better in all respects as a mono and don't lose too much of that advantage with two shocks welded on. Definitely a fine argument against. Unfortunately you have organizations like ITSA where the only rules are twin shock, air cooled and drum brakes. All of which a TY Mono can be converted as such. So like it or not there is actually a place for a twin shock TY Mono... at least until someone gets really creative and puts twin shocks and drum brakes on their Hondaka-powered Sherco, ahem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattylad Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 I have to say I considered converting a TLM Honda for nostalgia reasons and my love of Honda but saw sense and bought a TLR. A mono should remain mono, however what about fitting a mono engine in a twinshock chassis? In Yams case this was basically a works bike using the six speed OW10 engines. If we are not careful we will soon have the first 10,000 twinshock like in Pre-65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedronicman Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 The ACU rules state as below- CLASS B - Machines with Twinshock rear suspension as fitted at the time of manufacture and fitted with drum brakes, not included in Class A. CLASS C - Machines with a Monoshock rear suspension and an air cooled engine. No converted mono's!! No argument!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) Just as in most things there are two opposing camps.In this case we have the one camp which is the "in the spirit of the day" in which the bikes should represent a historically snapshot of what was ridden in the specified timeframe. This is epitomized by the philosophy espoused (especially in MX and to some degree trials) by AHRMA. The other camp is the "spirit of the rules" which believe that as long as the bike follows the written rules it is ok. For example no matter how the bike came to be as long as it has twin shocks it's ok. There are valid arguments for both groups. There has to be a balance between historical accuracy and practicality. If you insist on historically accurate you will get minimal participation, which isn't always practical from a financial point. Hence the dilemma. This particular case presents an interesting situation, as the TY mono was (please correct me if I'm wrong) available at the same time as other twin shock bikes. I think I'd rather discuss which oil ratio or tire to use, than the "legality" of such a bike in certain organizations. I won't enter in to the discussion over "in the spirit" as I am not a regular twin shock rider but would point out that it could be said to be a period mod as one of the first Monos in Britain was converted to twinshock at the time because the owner felt the design put too much strain on the back of the gearbox. As an aside I believe one or two cases vindicated his theory. I appreciate this was very much a one off but how some mods in Pre '65 are now universally accepted although only one works bike had it at the time? Edited August 19, 2008 by 2/4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee harris Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 (edited) I think done to death is the right phrase here........ As said a million times before, change a mono frame to a twin shock;its still not a twin shock. Get a new majesty framekit from Mick the man for many thousands of pounds; it has new geometry, lightweight tubing etc etc. is it a twionshock, well yes cos it wasnt a mono BUT Its not in the spirit of things........or should be go the pre 65 route and say thats ok??? I think we should do this one every 6 months on here just to fill some webspace. Is the Section hydraulic clutch and front disc on one of my 340s in the spirit - NO Is the 303 engine in my 240 frame, YES. its a 300 motor with no reed valve and the 300 was a twin shock. PS, I think rules are needed for the winners to abide by. Me, and maybe he with the TY mono, are out to have some fun and thats it. Edited August 19, 2008 by Lee Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilla Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Has anyone got any pics of a converted bike ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majesty320 Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Seems this wasnt the only cheat at the trial on Saturday, there was a guy riding a JH Cub in the two stroke easy route who also went round clean.If you looked in the program the guy had entered on a Bantam. I think this was the same Cub that won the twinshock class last year. Surely it should have been entered in the British specials class this year and last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickstart0748 Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 Hi to Godzilla look at photo's by Hilary and search out no199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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