No stop

[nigel dabster]

Unfortunately Dibs and Browny will never be world champion. Jack is a fair bit younger but I would guess Bou being only just 25 has at least another 5 or more years dominating. Colley and Jarvis never came close to winning a world round ( apart from Colley being lucky in Finland 1993 ) until the rules went to stop for a 1. The only way I can see us potentially having a British world championship challenger is to try and slow the spaniards down. Dibs and Browny unfortunately are still a mile off top 5, harsh but true.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion on our lads but never say never for any of them, and certainly dont make them disadvantaged by the rules in only 6 events.

Looking at the current riders they are all an ageing bunch, Dougie has dropped out nearly Fuji is on the way down cabas and Raga also, so the chance might be there in 3 years for any of our lads.

They need help and support to compete, not a rule change unless someone can convince the spaniards its a good thing it goes no stop.

[smalley250]

No riders coming up regardless of no or stop. Raga Caba Fuji still top riders and have been for near on 10 years so Bou will walk away with it for years to come.

Why partly because he came from push bike trials, to which they allow full use of skills unlike the way no stop will go.

Yes it does not relate to the have a go harry on sunday, but we need to think what the young ones want not us older riders and yes thats me.

I bet no stoppers are older or low scores in results. The one person i see great at non stop is Tony Scarlett still top level reagardless to the event.

[samy]

Has Bou ever ridden a no-stop trial?

Cheers

[spenser]

This is a very interesting discussion, and I don't think that it can be solved by choosing non-stop, or stop allowed. Other forms of motorsport have handicapped the machines to try to even things out, some by adding weight of machind and driver, others by design changes to the machines; the common thread is to make the sport less predictable for the viewer, and increase the entry numbers at the top of the sport. For a start, the WTC should use bikes with a suitable production run (min 200?) thereby reducing the power of the bank account.

The new bikes are very suited to hopping, with most club members being able to hop to varying degrees in the advanced to expert classes; on that note, the one dab given while a bike gets shuffled around for 30 seconds seems ridiculous to me. Maybe we should go back to only being allowed to dab while moving.

Just some thoughts

Spencer

[spenser]

On another related note, the lack of new riders may also be a result of the introduction of the mountain bike.

Spencer

[bilc0]

Snooker has the right idea, the ratings went well down on the conventional game so the officials decided to make an effort to try and fix it by creating power snooker, a much faster and flowing game,its a more exciting game to watch.

If the game did'nt have the rocket, the conventional game of snooker would of died off in the mainstream some years ago.

[telecat]

On another related note, the lack of new riders may also be a result of the introduction of the mountain bike.

Spencer

Of course the Trials Bicycle is very popular but those riders many of whom are world beaters are not making the transition like they do in Spain.

[nigel dabster]

On another related note, the lack of new riders may also be a result of the introduction of the mountain bike.

Spencer

I had my first mountain bike event in the 80's so that isn't a factor for sure.

What worries me more than anything is the debate we are having no stop/stop feels to me like we are fiddling while Rome burns.

Without question the WTC and to a lesser extent the BTC is failing in some eyes, and I have yet to see a reasoned argument with evidence that no stop is the panacea to our troubles at this or any other level.

More importantly the importer lead change to rules seems unreasnoble, not fully debated and fundamentally flawed in their logic, completly untried and untested.

Perhaps as a sport and industry we are too close to the problems and the recession has simply amplified the defects within.

Possibly instead of tinkering with the rules the importers should look closely at themselves and see what to me is obvious, a lack of new riders.

Perhaps if they were to produce a decent modern day ty 80, and knock it out for the loss leader it should be, we could get young bums on seats and save our sport, whatever the rules.

I own a gas Gas 50 for my children, and with a minor mod to the "moped" engine its a cracking modern little bike to have fun and learn the sport we love on.

Why cant the importers/factories get together to produce this typeof thing for a good price and try to solve the lack of sales?

[samy]

I think that stop should be allowed, but if you foot while stationary then you've got 5 points.

Cheers

[steveo]

The downward spiralling trend in Trials seems to be world wide, dont think the Stop / No Stop is going to change much.

The WTC is of no relevance to the vast majority of weekend riders, mealy a showcase of what the modern machines can do in skilled hands. Wether they ride Stop or NO Stop, the positions at the top will remain much the same.

I see here in Australia our Trials hierarchy follow what ever the International body dictates whether it is good for the majority or not. They have a belief that an Australian world class individual ( if one ever is to materialise) may be hampered if our countries riders are not on the same page as Tony Bou. The problem here is that there has never been a rider that has the talent or the commitment it would require to even achieve a top ten finish at any division of world level, but still they follow the leader and not do what may be best on the home front.

Countries right around the world that have a strong Trials base should look at what it can do for the growth of the sport at home.

If the trend here in Australia is a guide and reading many TC postings the growing support of the older machines is where the new and older returning base of riders is the strongest. There are also some black clubs emerging over here that are getting a very strong following mainly because of the straight forward older form of come ride and enjoy without the high costs of ACU licences, high entry fees and over the top officialdom that has crept in.

The mention of world class bicycle Trials star converting their talents to moto trials as Tony Bou has done, may see there is little rewards for the dedication required to achieve and then maintain the skill levels of Bou and Raga. That along with little recognition, very poor media coverage, not much sponsorship and a playing field that can be manipulated is not a strong inducement anyone.

[bilc0]

the growing support of the older machines is where the new and older returning base of riders is the strongest.

Very true

The modern bike manufacturers and Importers don't make much money out of it if any, this must niggle the hell out of them.

The importers only need to lose 20 riders a year that used to buy a new bike every year, well thats aload of dosh to lose.

[bigwig]

After reading peoples comments and getting fairly wound up, I feel it necessary to say my opinion.

I think all trials in the UK baring the British Championship should be no stop. This way like people have mentioned, there will be less queuing, not dangerous but rideable yet mark taking sections. Stopping at club level, none of the sections are against the clock so you could stand there for hours balancing which is boring for everyone concerned.

My main gripe is that the British Championship has gone to no stop rules. I cant see how this is benefiting anyone especially us top boys. Maybe that's me being selfish.

Its seems crazy that we're not allowed now to have 6 trials throughout the year for the riders that are aspiring to improve and move into the world ranks.

We have the s3 clubmans championship, numerous open nationals and club trials running all year round which cater for everyone that rides in the UK and now they have changed the rules so more people supposedly can ride in the Championship class at BTC.We need to stay in line with the FIM just as the foreign countries are doing. Ok Spain has been using the Openfree rules but thats stop permitted. Also the Trials are limited to 55 riders whcih most of the time are fairly full. If their not, why not encourage and allow more youth's to enter? This would bring them on leaps and bounds. I would be optimistic about no stop rules in the British Championship if it were to affect the rules at World Championship but with the Top Dog falling over to everything the foreign CTR officials want all the time, I don't hold out much hope. In doing this several top riders are very tempted to compete in national championships abroad it would lose its prestigious title. Winning's winning but i'm sure you'd get more satisfaction if all the top names are competing?

It's been said that the sections nowadays are so far fetched and not in touch with trials that spectators and your average club rider cant relate to them. I find that completely normal and acceptable. The British Championship is supposed to the pinnacle of British trials with some top world riders competing. People should watch them ride sections and think "how did they do that?" the same as I look at any athletes towards or at the top end of their sport. I want to be amazed when I watch Messi, Nadal, or whoever. Anyone that's new into the sport and watching British Championship shouldn't be able to think I'd like to have a go at that as most of the riders have been riding all their lives. Whereas if they were to go to a club trial or s3 nationals, they could watch no stop riding at think it would be possible for them to have a go.

Changing the rules also doesn't lower the price or fuel which is really the crippling part.

Basically, keep the BTC to stop rules and us boys will be happy, no stop for all other events then the majority is happy.

Alexz

Edited November 29, 2011 by bigwig

[old trials fanatic]

I feel that Trials is one of the few sports where the course that the top guys perform on is totally impossible for all but a handful of people in the world to even get around never mind ride.

Take GP's both F1 and Moto GP MotoX etc. Anybody and i mean anybody can ride round ANY GP track on anything no problem. OK your lap times would be light years away from the top boys even if you were ever lucky enough to be in or on comparable machinery but you could still complete the course easily. NOT so in Trials.

Is this healthy?? Is a change to No Stop rules the answer? I really dont know but what i do know is that as a course setter it is much easier to find land suitable for No Stop sections unless of course you include stupid man made obsticles which IMHO have no place in the sport anyway.

Just a thought that if sections are laid out AND OBSERVED TO TRUE NO STOP that perhaps just perhaps mere mortals could actually attempt a championship course. OK probably 5 it but at least have a go.

[rosey]

Is this healthy?? Is a change to No Stop rules the answer? I really dont know but what i do know is that as a course setter it is much easier to find land suitable for No Stop sections unless of course you include stupid man made obsticles which IMHO have no place in the sport anyway.

Just a thought that if sections are laid out AND OBSERVED TO TRUE NO STOP that perhaps just perhaps mere mortals could actually attempt a championship course. OK probably 5 it but at least have a go.

People who lay trials out do so for the enjoyment of others, so its hard to fault these types, but..

GOOD trials are usually laid out by folks who put the flags next to real obstacles and on the outside of a tree rather than the inside. You may think this is picky, but marks should not be taken by knocking a flag down on a slippy camber tha the observer has to keep putting back... A TRUE NO-STOP trial needs to allow the wriggle room to allow a flowing ride. As soon as the CoC sticks flags in to take marks (by flattening them) then you will see the riders being more 'stop' orientated.

BAD trials are when the flags are in the middle of nowhere (unprotected). With the multi routes they tend to also resemble flower gardens!

I helped lay out (ages back) a youth A+B national at Bracken Rocks. I spent ages making sections with lots of different lines and sticking flags where they could not easily be dislodged, only to find out that the CoC moved all the flags inwards to make crap one line only sections where knocking the flag over was a key to extracting more marks. Trials like these are what make people take up golf!... and that is VERY sad

[jj65]

After reading peoples comments and getting fairly wound up, I feel it necessary to say my opinion.

I think all trials in the UK baring the British Championship should be no stop. This way like people have mentioned, there will be less queuing, not dangerous but rideable yet mark taking sections. Stopping at club level, none of the sections are against the clock so you could stand there for hours balancing which is boring for everyone concerned.

My main gripe is that the British Championship has gone to no stop rules. I cant see how this is benefiting anyone especially us top boys. Maybe that's me being selfish.

Its seems crazy that we're not allowed now to have 6 trials throughout the year for the riders that are aspiring to improve and move into the world ranks.

We have the s3 clubmans championship, numerous open nationals and club trials running all year round which cater for everyone that rides in the UK and now they have changed the rules so more people supposedly can ride in the Championship class at BTC.We need to stay in line with the FIM just as the foreign countries are doing. Ok Spain has been using the Openfree rules but thats stop permitted. Also the Trials are limited to 55 riders whcih most of the time are fairly full. If their not, why not encourage and allow more youth's to enter? This would bring them on leaps and bounds. I would be optimistic about no stop rules in the British Championship if it were to affect the rules at World Championship but with the Top Dog falling over to everything the foreign CTR officials want all the time, I don't hold out much hope. In doing this several top riders are very tempted to compete in national championships abroad it would lose its prestigious title. Winning's winning but i'm sure you'd get more satisfaction if all the top names are competing?

It's been said that the sections nowadays are so far fetched and not in touch with trials that spectators and your average club rider cant relate to them. I find that completely normal and acceptable. The British Championship is supposed to the pinnacle of British trials with some top world riders competing. People should watch them ride sections and think "how did they do that?" the same as I look at any athletes towards or at the top end of their sport. I want to be amazed when I watch Messi, Nadal, or whoever. Anyone that's new into the sport and watching British Championship shouldn't be able to think I'd like to have a go at that as most of the riders have been riding all their lives. Whereas if they were to go to a club trial or s3 nationals, they could watch no stop riding at think it would be possible for them to have a go.

Changing the rules also doesn't lower the price or fuel which is really the crippling part.

Basically, keep the BTC to stop rules and us boys will be happy, no stop for all other events then the majority is happy.

Alexz

I have to say I agree with Alex, I much prefer No Stop and remember the WTC when it had no stop, but after thinking about it from his point of view, I have to agree, to compete with everyone else in the WTC, they need to be riding very difficult sections. I would like to see all the man made sections taken out of all the WTC and eventually go back to no stop.

Of course, the decision has now been made, so the experiment will begin, we'll see who doesn't want to play, but I fear, the riders won't have a choice, the sponsor will, and some have already had a year or so away doing other nationals championships, due to their sponsors or team.

I love to see the trick riding, but the indoor championship is it place IMHO. Difficult no stop sections can still be spectacular, but, Whatever the rules, the riders will adapt their riding skill to it and move it forward.