bilc0 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Its abit more interesting than that addict, The queen runs the country, her government just does what she tells them to, ever wondered why none of our previous governments took us into the euro single currency well she was the reason why not, queen is a very major shareholder of the BOE she would of taken us to war before giving that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Bilco, there could be some truth in that,(I have no idea) but to be honest its not really anything to do with the problems faced today. Governments borrow to get in power, the more they promise with our money and our kids money the better. There is no need for any government debt using a different system, the one we have only creates sovereign debt every time government borrows. It amazes me that governments (Nations) borrow money from privately owned Banks? who's in charge here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Its abit more interesting than that addict, The queen runs the country, her government just does what she tells them to, ever wondered why none of our previous governments took us into the euro single currency well she was the reason why not, queen is a very major shareholder of the BOE she would of taken us to war before giving that up. how much cr4p can you get in one sentence. So who did kill kennedy and we really didnt land on the moon did we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Growth - as such, pretty much ended sometime in the late 90's, what has driven economic growth (GDP) since then has been borrowed from the future, and that borrowed money has come home to roost. Again this morning I heard economists banging on how growth will return in late 2012? where from? what has driven growth in the past twenty years? borrowing to create it. It's going to take some incredible discovery of something to return to genuine growth from now on, maybe a new from of fuel or a massive oil field. All they are doing now is borrowing more to create artificial growth in the short term with the hope it will stimulate real growth in the future? where the F**k from? Yesterdays ECB giveaway, 500 billion Euro's to the banks with the aim of making loans (debt) more available to us and countries in the short term? too much debt is the problem period, creating even more is just beyond belief, these people are running things as well. The ECB creates 500 billion Euro's simply by clicking a few computer keys, (it doesn't have 500 billion Euro's) gives it to the Banks, who will then buy up sovereign bonds from countries who can't sell bonds because the markets know they can't pay it back? Creating more money, creates inflation via devaluation of the existing amount of money before new creation, wonder why we have 5%RPI today? (more like 15-20% in real terms) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 how much cr4p can you get in one sentence. Happy Christmas. Im sure we all have diffrent views how we're run in this country, my views has kept me out of debt whilst others will die in debt (Owned), no bugger is will or ever going to own me like that. What is debt, its control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 What is debt, its control. I'll agree 100% with that Bilc0, Debt itself is not all bad, its debt with interest that causes the problems, there is no need for it at all, all of our lives would be far better without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I'll agree 100% with that Bilc0, Debt itself is not all bad, its debt with interest that causes the problems, there is no need for it at all, all of our lives would be far better without it. You seen the adverts for short term loans ? 1748apr !!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 how much cr4p can you get in one sentence. So who did kill kennedy and we really didnt land on the moon did we. He, he Nige...(somebody help me, I'm siding with Dabster) Comrade Bilco , you're wide of the mark ,loans (debt) is how the western world ticks (like it or lump it). You are getting mixed up by not distinguishing between manageable debt and reckless debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Comrade Bilco , loans (debt) is how the western world ticks (like it or lump it). For business yes, some may need a short term loans to keep afloat, it does'nt have to be this way for joe public, hand on my heart i can say i have no debt, my rent gets paid each month without bashing the credit card for it, my cards get paid each month without bashing another card for it and what material items i own were all paid for with cash on the day. Im clearly doing something wrong. Also in the last 14 years a lot of people have left a company to set there own business up probaly with the help of a massive loan/house on the line but hey not every artist has a business head some will survive some will not. Im not all that concerned what there doing up top to them its just paper shuffling a game, theres still members of public out there with plenty of money to spend, business just needs to find diffrent ways of helping them spend it , people will go up and some go down nothing new there then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) As I said above, loans/debt are not a bad thing, they expand the economy so it can grow and it expands the money supply to do it. The problem with our current system is quite simple, when a loan is made, the Bank creates the money itself, it doesn't have that money in the first place. It then charges us interest on the loan which is never created at any stage? As you pay back your loan the Bank destroys the principle and keeps the interest as profit or an asset on the books. You have to find the principle payment plus the interest which does not exist. You therefore have to take a part of someone elses principle to pay the interest. With this system default is inevitable as there is never enough money created to pay principle and interest. We are in a system that is impossible to recover from by some margin, the solution which many, including governments use is to borrow more/roll over debt interest/loans with new loans? crazy. You can see this everyday, the Gilt/Bond markets, constantly selling debt for new debt that will mature in the future. If Governments created money themselves and at a very low interest rate or no interest rate at all there would be no sovereign debts, the reason countries have such massive debts is simply because they have borrowed the money from the Banks as interest bearing loans. Edited December 22, 2011 by The Addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 This is one of the main reasons the EU debt cannot be fixed, the money's been spent and gone, all that's left is the massive debt, to pay off the debts you have to take existing money from the economy to pay it off which there hasn't been any for decades. The only option is to borrow more, borrow more money to pay off previous debts, back to where you started at surely? only thing that helps is you have pushed back the date a little to when it matures. The other option which thankfully the ECB and Merkel are not keen on, is to simply get the ECB tp print vast amounts of new money (trillions) and pay off the debts. This can be done tomorrow easily, but the consequences of doing so are dramatic to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Im the the product and process development and manufacture of Food/Medical packaging. We are fortunate that we have just had our best trading year to date. My problem is being able to find any good engineers which have the necessary skills and experience that I need! I've been trying for 8 months now using local and national advertising. Using a host of agency's and out of the few decent CV's I have seen, when interviewed, they are woefully short of what I need. I pay good rates for the job so its not a salary thing. Even with engineering suppliers, I had to tell the owner of the company who supplied a faulty part how to correct the error because he didn't know how to do it. it's a real sad state of affairs The work is there in some places, its just we don't have the personnel to fit the jobs available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Im the the product and process development and manufacture of Food/Medical packaging. We are fortunate that we have just had our best trading year to date. My problem is being able to find any good engineers which have the necessary skills and experience that I need! I've been trying for 8 months now using local and national advertising. Using a host of agency's and out of the few decent CV's I have seen, when interviewed, they are woefully short of what I need. I pay good rates for the job so its not a salary thing. Even with engineering suppliers, I had to tell the owner of the company who supplied a faulty part how to correct the error because he didn't know how to do it. it's a real sad state of affairs The work is there in some places, its just we don't have the personnel to fit the jobs available. It is ironic to me, yet similar story, I have had to develop from within over the years, and that is not an easy path either. Some just fall out! After bad years and layoffs, those in the tech trades have not bothered to apply even! Seems many do not want to work that hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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