Taking 5S At Ssdt

[midlife]

The time of the SSDT is looming and there is a lot of riders out there without an entry .riders that will try every section.

How many riders that have an entry will ask for 5s without trying using it to save time and energy to get round this event and claiming they have completed the event.

To me this is taking short cuts.

[baldilocks]

There are a few issues with this in my mind

 

First of all look at the age and ability range of the riders - some young riders with no fear, a few professionals and an awful lot of over 40s who will be expecting to go to work at some point the week after. Its a single route trial, by nature some sections will be too easy for the pros and other sections too hard for the clubman.

 

Second, would you prefer they rode in the begins and stalled the bike, or rode to the foot of a waterfall and turned round ?

 

Third how do you know those who didn't get a ride would ride every section ?

 

Fourth If you have sections the majority don't attempt then is it the majority of riders who are wrong or the section ?

 

Finally having bought a new bike, new gear, paid the entry fee, drove to Fort William, paid for the hotel etc etc, why should a clubman put himself out of the trial on Monday before lunch at Blackwater or Grey Mares by hurting themselves or their bike on a section the majority are going to five anyway ?

[midlife]

I agree some sections may b to much for some people think before you go and if you think the event is to much don't go.give others a chance.

Yes go past the begins cards at least you have done the route and not used the time to catch up.

You don't.but taking it if every one though about it tryers would go.

Nothing wrong the way it is.

[the dabster]

There are a few issues with this in my mind

 

First of all look at the age and ability range of the riders - some young riders with no fear, a few professionals and an awful lot of over 40s who will be expecting to go to work at some point the week after. Its a single route trial, by nature some sections will be too easy for the pros and other sections too hard for the clubman.

 

Second, would you prefer they rode in the begins and stalled the bike, or rode to the foot of a waterfall and turned round ?

 

Third how do you know those who didn't get a ride would ride every section ?

 

Fourth If you have sections the majority don't attempt then is it the majority of riders who are wrong or the section ?

 

Finally having bought a new bike, new gear, paid the entry fee, drove to Fort William, paid for the hotel etc etc, why should a clubman put himself out of the trial on Monday before lunch at Blackwater or Grey Mares by hurting themselves or their bike on a section the majority are going to five anyway ?

Very sound reasoning.

[cleanorbust]

I'm not at all sure that the concept of "taking 5s" exists at the Scottish. In the days when I rode I recall it was incumbent on each rider to make a bona fide attempt at each section. As the supplementary regs read now, you'd have to actually ride a section to meet the conditions for a five to be scored. Missing a sub section incurs 50 marks and you're only allowed two instances of this per day before being excluded.

Edited April 3, 2016 by cleanorbust

[4ourtea]

Hi midlife

 

I am not picking an argument here, and I do understand the angle you are coming from, but the trial is intended to be a competition - and for all ages/abilities. You ride according to the rules and you do everything you can to compete and complete the world's greatest trial. 

 

I rode last year (and finished) and the flaw in your point is that I saw plenty of first timer young riders asking for 5's too - it is not just the old brigade as someone else indicated. If you take the ageist angle to weed out low-level ability people who are perceived as being those over 40 years old, you cannot discriminate so, you can wave goodbye to some big names alongside the unheard-of riders - notable over 40 riders to say goodbye to this year will include Dougie Lampkin (40 years old now) John Shirt, Nigel Birkett, Thierry Michaud, Eddy Lejeune, Adam Norris, Scott Cameron, Phil Alderson, et al? Of course you will then say "Oh no, the big names can stay in..." - which is discrimination - so then you are faced with some sort of selection process - Experts only? Experts and Intermediates only? It won't work - also, too many young (under 30 yr olds) riders just aren't interested in road trials... Furthermore, are you going to exclude all the entries of our foreign friends? The Japanese, French, Spanish and many other nationality entrants...? Many of them have only seen videos, Youtube clips, heard folklore or read reports about the event. It is a huge eye-opener for some of them and they too ask for 5's occasionally as they have simply never seen sections like it!. The trial is international - another huge factor contributing the event's aura - are you going to ban them too unless they can prove they are good enough and not going to bottle it at a couple of sections?

 

Perhaps you also rode last year? On the Tuesday in particular, people were desperately trying to get to the finish without getting excluded on time - it was starting to resemble an enduro in places. I saw four shell-shocked riders ask for 5's in the whole group on the Clunes Forest moor crossing, and frankly - who could blame them? They had probably forked out well over £1,000 each to get themselves to that event: book the accommodation, travel up, pay for fuel, meals, new kit, tyres, pay the entry fee, etc. If they were there with the family too, it was probably over £2,000. If that was you, would you say to yourself, parked behind five others waiting to go into sub 1, "No... I am going to sit here in the queue, waste more time, crash in all four sections (5's), risk doing a load of damage to the bike and then press on - it doesn't matter if I get excluded - at least I can say I tried to ride every section!!" - Gallant perhaps, but also pretty dumb when you get in on Wednesday morning and see a diagonal red line across your number plate (signifying "Excluded - ride on a no-award basis from now on")

 

The Supplementary Regs state what is and isn't allowed and observers make a note of who asked for a 5 - the Club then assess if a particular section was too hard for a chunk of the entry and use that to improve the trial in future years or other such debates

 

We are all disappointed if we get balloted out in early January - that is a fact of life associated with the SSDT. One just lives with it, gets over it and re-applies the following year. We certainly shouldn't begrudge people who are entitled to enter (according to the entry form regulations) and are fortunate enough to get to the start line in May. 

[breagh]

Must admit I do feel a bit self indulgent riding this year but really I only entered to go round with  a mate who hasn't ridden before.

 

Sadly he didn't get a ride.

 

Personally I've no problem with riders taking 5s (I've even done it myself)

 

My point would be and it's more of a general one is that riders who support the sport should be favoured.in the ballot

 

Surely the fact I ride about 50 trials a year should be in my favour.

 

And conversely once a year riders go to the bottom of the pile.

 

Couldn't be fairer.

[pro sport]

I would love to be able to say that I've ridden and completed the 'Scottish' it's been a dream from when I first started riding in the early seventies. The nearest I got were a few two day trials! which thoroughly knackered me, so in my heart of hearts I knew I would never be able to complete SIX days on the trot.

Surely it's the common sense of the entrants that should limit the entry to those who think they could complete the six days, not wasting their hard earned !

Then here is the curved ball.

Why not mark all riders asking observers for a five without even attempting a section or sub with an extra penelty mark ( yes a 6 ) thereby allowing the organisers to know if levels have been set too high for that section. Also differentiating between those that make a bonafide attempt to get through the section, but still allowing a rider of ability not to be highly penalised by taking a '6' for missing an odd attempt or a rider that needs to make time up to beat being excluded.

[dadof2]

Part of the solution to this (not just at SSDT) is to set the sections to take minimal marks from the winner and mark strictly to the no stop rule, rather than making the sections hard and then marking over leniently.

[theluckyone]

Love that idea of a six but surely it should be a seven!

This would give rise to a whole new trials phrase of " I shook a seven on section nine"

Sounds almost as good as " I would've cleaned it if I hadn't had a five".

Don't tell me you've never said that.....

[mudboy]

a Large percentage of the riders who do well, has ridden the SSDT a couple of times. The SSDT is very complex, and every year you learn more about the format and the sections.

You ride your first SSDT, you are going to be surprised by the ferocity of the course, between sections and the difficulty of the sections. Some of the sections are big, and the average rider will have to preserve himself and ask for a five.

I rode my first last year, I am back this year. Best trial in the world.

[crazybond700]

If the rules alow to get a five, the should be able to take a five without any other consequenses... Rules are rules.

 

Be really carefull not to make it a pro's only event, the event will lose its charm.

 

Dont make rules, like the no stop rule, which are discussable. What would be a desent try? Entering through the start? How many % of the track should you reach in order to satisfy the observer? I dont think any of that will work.

A extra score, or rules how many you are allowed to take a 5 or something are possible. They are clear from the beginning. If you are in a hurry take a 7 (or 10 or what else), if you have time enter the stage and get maximum of 5. That way you promote people to try, but also give the possibility to catch up time, or give people the change to save themselfs and material in no chance situations.

Edited April 4, 2016 by andy

[cleanorbust]

Crazybond700 wrote:

" If the rules alow to get a five, the should be able to take a five"

The rules are very specific about the circumstances when a five is scored. All of them involve riding the section. Asking the observer for a score without riding the section isn't covered as far as I can see.

The rules are also very clear in stating that missing a section involves a 50 mark penalty.

[perce]

It's better the tourists ask for a five rather than putting their front wheel through the IN cards, time's tight enough, they just get in everybody else's way.

[axulsuv]

Wow , I need to travel more ... Bucket list ...Been riding trials since the mid 70's and the ssdt has always been the DREAM .