lineaway Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Hate to tell you guys, but if you think his hopping side ways on that rock was a five you are mistaken. That will not be overturned. He never stopped motion. That is the whole problem. When they went to these rules years ago they mistakenly called it no stop. It has never been no stop as you have known it. It is no motion. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Interestingly, I've heard it suggested that the original whistle on Marcelli wasn't for stopping at all, but for riding over a marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Unfortunately, if it was a marker rule there is no blue markers seen in the video at that point in the section. Any other video out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshock250 Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 7 hours ago, lineaway said: Hate to tell you guys, but if you think his hopping side ways on that rock was a five you are mistaken. That will not be overturned. He never stopped motion. That is the whole problem. When they went to these rules years ago they mistakenly called it no stop. It has never been no stop as you have known it. It is no motion. So reversing is allowed then? as going backwards is "motion" too. I was under the impression it was "forward motion" that has to be maintained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 As Scottie said, "Ye cannae beat the laws o' physics". In order to go backwards first you have to stop. He definitely went backwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worlez Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) Watch the video in half-speed playback. At 13:22 he jumps up on to the rock - as his back tire squirms left before his corrective hops it hits a red and white flag just behind the bush. You can see the flag spring back as he hops the bike to the right. I think thats what the observer has fived him for. Edited September 21, 2018 by worlez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worlez Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 8 hours ago, heffergm said: Interestingly, I've heard it suggested that the original whistle on Marcelli wasn't for stopping at all, but for riding over a marker. I'm curious, if you were observing, would you mark riders to the no stop rule, or your interpretation of how it should be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, lineaway said: Hate to tell you guys, but if you think his hopping side ways on that rock was a five you are mistaken. That will not be overturned. He never stopped motion. That is the whole problem. When they went to these rules years ago they mistakenly called it no stop. It has never been no stop as you have known it. It is no motion. This is kind of irrelevant. Why the observer changed his ruling is the issue at hand. Nonetheless you are interpreting the fim no stop rules incorrectly. You say he never stopped motion however it specifically states a 5 is awarded for ceasing "forward" motion. So hopping sideways is classed as stopping forward motion Edited September 21, 2018 by faussy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Nice to see the hidden marker, but from the video it does no justice for the call. So how many of you scored the last few UK World Rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, b40rt said: I'm curious, if you were observing, would you mark riders to the no stop rule, or your interpretation of how it should be ? I'll be honest, I basically wouldn't call stops at all unless you're entirely motionless for a solid 3 count, or you're stopped with a foot down. I realize this isn't to the letter of the rules. It is however how I see largely see the majority of observers interpreting the rule. Forward motion I could care less about... If that were enforced, every time a rider threw a nose wheelie it would be a five. If people really want no stop, section design needs to change. Edited September 21, 2018 by heffergm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, heffergm said: I'll be honest, I basically wouldn't call stops at all unless you're entirely motionless for a solid 3 count, or you're stopped with a foot down. I realize this isn't to the letter of the rules. It is however how I see largely see the majority of observers interpreting the rule. Forward motion I could care less about... If that were enforced, every time a rider threw a nose wheelie it would be a five. If people really want no stop, section design needs to change. I appreciate your honest answer. Not sure where this count to three came from, why not two, or four ? Is it 1 2 3, or onne.twooo. threeee? I actually agree that the rules should be changed for "modern" trials, but fairly sure it would cause as many problems as it solves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgas Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 I would agree that a sideways hop is a stop of forward motion and is therefore a 5 , I believed that to be the case until the qualifying section In Italy on the last rock where everyone but bou ,busto and raga hopped sideways off the rock and got away with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worlez Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 All the discussion about stop or not is missing the point. His back wheel rode over the flag. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faussy Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, worlez said: All the discussion about stop or not is missing the point. His back wheel rode over the flag. Thats not the point either! The point is the observer chose to give him a five (whether this is deemed correct or not is irrelevant) and subsequently changed his mind. If he changed his mind because of outside influence (whether that be from the crowd/riders or other officals) then that is whats contestable, and ultimately what the FIM are looking into. We shouldnt be arguing whether it was a 5 or not, we would end up arguing every ride in every trial. What we should be arguing is, should an observers decision ever be changed or overturned, and via what means can it be changed. If the observer has a quick reflection and goes, no i made a mistake, it should have been a clean then ok, or if a rider fairly challenges the decision and the observer changes then ok. But if he is unfairly forced to change his decision then this is foul play. Andy also touched on a point. While the live scoring is great for most instances, would this have happened if the spectators didnt know the exact scores. Did the live scoring contribute to this? I believe it most certainly did. Should live scoring be removed? I think the pros outweigh the cons on this, but it introduces another dynamic. Also, should the observers be allowed to follow the live scoring? Should the riders? Can a rider change his style knowing the current results? In a lot of ways trials used to be about not knowing what your competitors were on and you rode as hard as you could regardless, especially if observing on boards is used like the ssdt and scott Edited September 21, 2018 by faussy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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