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mercuryrev

Riding a 4RT

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I'm contemplating buying a 4RT or Repsol, having only ever ridden a 2 stroke. I keep reading comments about how they ride differently, how people shouldn't ride them like a 2T. I understand that they are heavier, but other than that what is the difference between say a TRS and a Repsol when riding a section.

My level of skill is pretty low, I'd normally ride one up from the easiest route at a club trial. I also much prefer messing around at a practice ground to competing. So no need for they don't hop better on the back wheel thanks! 

I'm also not able to get a test ride on one sadly.

Really interested in understanding how they differ.

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Some take to them and love them,others go backwards.Suspension and build quality are superb,you'd have to try one to know.Some can't get them to grip,rather a Marmite bike

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Surprisingly the 4RT has a spot just off idle that the rear tire spins and looses traction easily. It would take me weeks to learn to get around this. Where most 2 strokes easily find grip.

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There are tons of them around here, ridden from clubman level up through more advanced, and whatever differences there may be, they all seem to do fine on them. To me the feel like a pregnant horse through the footpegs, so I'd never bother with one, but clearly some people like them...

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People keep talking about losing traction with a 4 stroke. Traction is all about control. I had 4 years of Jotagas, Sherco & Sherco factory 300 2 strokes all with fast action throttles. I bought a MH300RR last December which comes fitted with a slow action throttle. That was one thing I missed, the INSTANT response to the throttle.

It did take a while to get used to that. Now, I find the 300RR to be very responsive,  very forgiving and now my favaourite bike. By the way. I am 76 in 3 weeks time.

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Thanks for the replies so far.

What I'm trying to discover is what it actually is that is different?

I imagine, from watching them, that they will run away from you unless you stop them? Because of a high tickover, they won't stall and so you either need to pick and execute the right line, or you're in trouble? On a 2T I have to either drive the bike, or stop the momentum from having just put the gas on. Whereas, I imagine, with a Mont, the bike is going and if you're not on the right line, it's a case of stopping it and sorting it out, much the same as with a 2T?

 

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13 minutes ago, johnsandywhite said:

People keep talking about losing traction with a 4 stroke. Traction is all about control. I had 4 years of Jotagas, Sherco & Sherco factory 300 2 strokes all with fast action throttles. I bought a MH300RR last December which comes fitted with a slow action throttle. That was one thing I missed, the INSTANT response to the throttle.

It did take a while to get used to that. Now, I find the 300RR to be very responsive,  very forgiving and now my favaourite bike. By the way. I am 76 in 3 weeks time.

Good man! I noticed you're in Spain? Do you ride it there?

 

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I'm an average Club rider and at 60 ride a Tiger Cub and 4RT (both 4 stroke).  I have also ridden Gas Gas's in the past.

In all honesty, I can get away with more on a Gas Gas as they are lighter but ridden at Club level in non stop trials and trying not to use the clutch (old school), the 4RT is a great bike to ride.  My 2014 Repsol has brilliant suspension and build quality.  If anything,it's a bit too powerful and makes my 60 year old arms ache after a day's riding, however I'm not that fit!

If you are anywhere near Kent, you are welcome to try mine.  Technique is key with these bikes and I love mine although I tend to use my Cub on the easy route for club trials these days.

 

You really need to try one around some simple sections and compare it with a 2 stroke to see which you prefer.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bruce.

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17 minutes ago, brucey said:

I'm an average Club rider and at 60 ride a Tiger Cub and 4RT (both 4 stroke).  I have also ridden Gas Gas's in the past.

In all honesty, I can get away with more on a Gas Gas as they are lighter but ridden at Club level in non stop trials and trying not to use the clutch (old school), the 4RT is a great bike to ride.  My 2014 Repsol has brilliant suspension and build quality.  If anything,it's a bit too powerful and makes my 60 year old arms ache after a day's riding, however I'm not that fit!

If you are anywhere near Kent, you are welcome to try mine.  Technique is key with these bikes and I love mine although I tend to use my Cub on the easy route for club trials these days.

 

You really need to try one around some simple sections and compare it with a 2 stroke to see which you prefer.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bruce.

HI Bruce, thank you, I'd love too but I live about 600 miles away, in France..... I do have family in Kent however.

Getting a test ride here is impossible and I think I've only seen one Mont ridden at the all too infrequent trials here. 

Can I ask why do you not use the clutch? Because the high tickover is there to stop it stalling? Obviously I'm used to riding on the clutch nearly all the time with a 2T. 

 

 

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I think the Montesa has 2 quirks - they like to ridden quiet forcefully - also they do not respond to the 2 stroke rev/dump the clutch and burn technique. 

If you ride maybe a lower gear quite forcefully with weight maybe slight rearwards compared to a 2t the bike will reward you , Once hooked up and in a straight line or before a step/bank you need to get the revs on the ride on the over run - ala Toni Bou.

The bike also has lots of low down torque which will allow you to get grip on tick over in low gears - but you have to believe and hang on with good throttle control - I think beginners/lesser riders maybe less fit riders can struggle with this concept and hence why people think they don'  grip.

Also they grip in higher gears in deep mud but the revs need to be built up steadily with a constant slip of the clutch and then once gripping the throttle can be buried and get ready for orbit  

 

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I have recently changed from a 2 stroke Rev3 to a 4 stroke Evo. I love it! I find it just as light and easy to manoeuvre and the smooth power delivery is perfect for me. It is very torquey and pulls up hills really well. I also find it grips better than my old Rev in the mud - not sure why some find grip difficult. Anyway - I'm just a wobbler and not jumping or hopping anywhere - I just like the bike because it goes where I dare to point it!

 

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 Build quality, reliability & suspension peerless. Sounds great & lovely to ride, although weight is an issue, as basic design has been around since 2005.Great on rocky going, but not so great at gripping in muddy conditions. Spare parts are very reasonable, especially breakables like plastics. Airbox is a bit of a muck attractor & sidestand could be better.  4RT will be perfectly OK if you are are just enjoying the occasional trial & having some fun.

Buy one & keep it.  But... If you are competing every week & plan to progress, then 2 stroke wins the day for mr average. 

n.b Toni's bike may look like a 4RT, but it has been hand crafted out of "Unobtainium" , & will no doubt weigh just slightly more than the rule book minimum..     

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2 hours ago, jimmyl said:

I think the Montesa has 2 quirks - they like to ridden quiet forcefully - also they do not respond to the 2 stroke rev/dump the clutch and burn technique. 

If you ride maybe a lower gear quite forcefully with weight maybe slight rearwards compared to a 2t the bike will reward you , Once hooked up and in a straight line or before a step/bank you need to get the revs on the ride on the over run - ala Toni Bou.

The bike also has lots of low down torque which will allow you to get grip on tick over in low gears - but you have to believe and hang on with good throttle control - I think beginners/lesser riders maybe less fit riders can struggle with this concept and hence why people think they don'  grip.

Also they grip in higher gears in deep mud but the revs need to be built up steadily with a constant slip of the clutch and then once gripping the throttle can be buried and get ready for orbit  

 

Thanks very much for that long reply, it's exactly the sort of thing I was looking to find out.

Is it a case of making it grip, when there is grip, using a lower gear and weight and then using momentum to get through the less grippy stuff?

I'm a bit confused on doing a step, or 90 degreeish bank.....? Bring the revs up, let them drop a little then hit the throttle again to lift the front, then go up on the over run?

Thanks again, I'm starting to get there!

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4 hours ago, mercuryrev said:

Good man! I noticed you're in Spain? Do you ride it there?

 

Yes. I have some GREAT practice areas that are used for National, Classic and last September the World Trials Comps. It's a place called La Nucia. Just inland up the mountain from Benidorm. I also have a practice area around Benidorm. Here are a few areas I ride at La Nucia. The weather has been great fro the 3 weeks we have been here. I learned to use the clutch during the past 5 years, the bikes have very rarely got away from me.

4.jpg

5.jpg

7.jpg

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2 hours ago, markparrish said:

I have recently changed from a 2 stroke Rev3 to a 4 stroke Evo. I love it! I find it just as light and easy to manoeuvre and the smooth power delivery is perfect for me. It is very torquey and pulls up hills really well. I also find it grips better than my old Rev in the mud - not sure why some find grip difficult. Anyway - I'm just a wobbler and not jumping or hopping anywhere - I just like the bike because it goes where I dare to point it!

 

Thanks for the reply

You sound like you're riding it gently and just taking your time to do stuff? 

Are you just riding it on the throttle or using the clutch to control things?

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