mcman56 Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) I'm running a Dunlop tubeless tire with tube on a TL250. It has new rim locks tightened as tight as possible. Looking at the valve stem, the rear tube is rotating on the rim. I assumed this must be the tire rotating but I marked the tire/ rim before last ride and it is not. The valve stem is noticeably angled with only one very mild ride. See pic with line and stem from one ride. The line is from black marker to black marker and not related to raised line on tire. This is strange. Is there a fix? To recenter valve stem, I have been doing a number of deflation and inflation cycles with a tightened valve stem nut and it does straighten out. I had a TY175 do the same thing and I assumed it was the tire turning on the rim but now I don't know. It eventually stopped doing it. Edited July 28, 2022 by mcman56 add detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtas Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Have you tried popping the tyre off the bead and rotating the rim around within the tyre to rectify the valve angle, then reinflate and bead the tyre and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 Yes it's a normal thing to have the tube creep inside the tyre. It can be quite persistent. If you can get the tube to adhere to the inside of the tyre it won't creep but that can be difficult to achieve. I've found it is less likely to creep if I use a 4.00-4.50 tube rather than a 3.50-4.00 tube. I have also found it happens less with Michelin X11 rears than with IRC rears. If you leave plenty of room in the rim hole for the valve stem to lean over I've found that the tube will only creep so far and the tube stem stops it creeping further (I found this because I got sick and tired of moving the tube stem back straight when it leaned over due to tube creep.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl ekblom Posted July 29, 2022 Report Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) Yes, tubes are wandering inside the tyre. Tightening the rim locks doesn´t help This is a trick I learnt from a Speedway guy. Empty the tube. Push the bike backwards until valve position is correct. Fill the tube with air. This has to be repeated every 2nd occasion or so. Tubliss fix this problem as you don´t use a traditional tube. I would say "a permanent fix" at the expense of slightly more difficult fitting. Tubliss make it possibe to run tubeless tyres at tubed rims Edited July 29, 2022 by carl ekblom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted July 29, 2022 Report Share Posted July 29, 2022 Easiest solution would have been to buy the correct tire. https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/tires-and-wheels/irc-tr-11-trials-tire-(tube-type)-p You will always be fighting the issue with a tubeless on a DID tube type rim. On the ty 80`s I drilled 8 holes in each side of the rim and screwed the tires to the rim. I always use a bead sealer. https://www.amazon.com/Steelman-G10106-Tire-Bead-Sealer/dp/B00NBTGCF4/ref=sr_1_59?crid=OVD6WK9CN290&keywords=tire+mounting+lube+and+sealer&qid=1659102586&sprefix=tire+mounting+lube+and+sealer%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 I've always lived with tubes that creep a bit. Three things I do: - in first gear with dead motor, repeatedly jam the bike backwards against compression to correct valve position - extend valve hole lengthways with a round file - don't screw the valve lockring up to the rim, let the valve tilt if it's going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 22 hours ago, lineaway said: Easiest solution would have been to buy the correct tire. https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/tires-and-wheels/irc-tr-11-trials-tire-(tube-type)-p You will always be fighting the issue with a tubeless on a DID tube type rim. On the ty 80`s I drilled 8 holes in each side of the rim and screwed the tires to the rim. I always use a bead sealer. https://www.amazon.com/Steelman-G10106-Tire-Bead-Sealer/dp/B00NBTGCF4/ref=sr_1_59?crid=OVD6WK9CN290&keywords=tire+mounting+lube+and+sealer&qid=1659102586&sprefix=tire+mounting+lube+and+sealer%2Caps%2C138&sr=8-59 Agree, I tried an old Tubeless tire on the rear of my TY175, wouldn't sit on the bead correctly. Mounted an IRC tube type rear tire. No problems with bead seating or tube creep. Only problem I have is the sidewall is a bit softer than I would like and have to run 5-6psi in it instead of 4psi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) To my bikes sometimes the inner tire creeps sometimes not. It happens to Michelin and too to IRC. In my experience it did help to get the valve streight again and then during hibernation pump up the tire to 1.5 to 2.0 bar and leave it over the winter / a couple of month, that has cured it so far to my bikes. To reposition the valve my trick for get that done super easy. 1. Loosen the tire fasteners, 2. Just take out the air pressure. 3. Roll backwards while steering sharp curves (backwards slalom) and after a couple of meter the valve should be straight again. Works with front or rear tire! 4. refill air. 5. tighten the tire holder mounts. Takes 5 minutes and is super easy. Edited July 31, 2022 by pschrauber spelling issues as usual ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl ekblom Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Yes, usually a few meters backwards is sufficient to get the valve in correct position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted October 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) This issue continues. I was deflating and reinflating tube to get it centered every couple of rides. I also increased pressure to 5 psi. In other bikes I use 4 psi. I stopped the deflation/ inflation step and developed a leak at the valve stem in a maybe 5 short rides. I installed a 4:25/ 4:50 tube and ripped the stem off in only a few miles of dirt with no rocks. There was no impact. I just came around a turn on a flat road, gave it a good bit of throttle and could feel it go flat all at once. The tire remained seated on the rim. I rode the bike about 1/4 mile with the flat and the tire was still firmly seated on the rim. The bike has a DID 2.15 x 18 rim. This is really odd. I'm not sure if I should try an IRC tire or maybe the tubliss system. Does anyone run Tubliss on a trials bike? Edited October 4, 2023 by mcman56 add detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted October 4, 2023 Report Share Posted October 4, 2023 4 hours ago, mcman56 said: This issue continues. I was deflating and reinflating tube to get it centered every couple of rides. I also increased pressure to 5 psi. In other bikes I use 4 psi. I stopped the deflation/ inflation step and developed a leak at the valve stem in a maybe 5 short rides. I installed a 4:25/ 4:50 tube and ripped the stem off in only a few miles of dirt with no rocks. There was no impact. I just came around a turn on a flat road, gave it a good bit of throttle and could feel it go flat all at once. The tire remained seated on the rim. I rode the bike about 1/4 mile with the flat and the tire was still firmly seated on the rim. The bike has a DID 2.15 x 18 rim. This is really odd. I'm not sure if I should try an IRC tire or maybe the tubliss system. Does anyone run Tubliss on a trials bike? Seems that there is sufficient radial movement in your low pressure radial tire to rip the valve stem out of your bias tire inner tubes without the tire bead sliding on the rim. When they run a mousse in an enduro bike tire they lubricate the mousse so it slides inside the tire without damage, maybe you can similarly lubricate your inner tube so it isn't damaged by the tire movement in the radial direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 18 hours ago, mcman56 said: This issue continues. I was deflating and reinflating tube to get it centered every couple of rides. I also increased pressure to 5 psi. In other bikes I use 4 psi. I stopped the deflation/ inflation step and developed a leak at the valve stem in a maybe 5 short rides. I installed a 4:25/ 4:50 tube and ripped the stem off in only a few miles of dirt with no rocks. There was no impact. I just came around a turn on a flat road, gave it a good bit of throttle and could feel it go flat all at once. The tire remained seated on the rim. I rode the bike about 1/4 mile with the flat and the tire was still firmly seated on the rim. The bike has a DID 2.15 x 18 rim. This is really odd. I'm not sure if I should try an IRC tire or maybe the tubliss system. Does anyone run Tubliss on a trials bike? 1 of our local twinshock guys runs the Tubliss system & hasn't had any problems with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted October 5, 2023 Report Share Posted October 5, 2023 19 hours ago, mcman56 said: I'm not sure if I should try an IRC tire or maybe the tubliss system. Does anyone run Tubliss on a trials bike? I bought a Tubliss many years ago for the rear tyres on my trials twinshocks and ended up not even trying it because it was heavier than a tube. It's still on my shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcman56 Posted November 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2023 I ended up going to the Tubliss system and the issue appears to be gone. I expected mounting to be quite difficult but it was not bad. I see their claim about it being lighter. I did not weigh anything but I would say... maybe and it probably depends on the thickness of the 4:00 x 18 tube you are running. The 18" tube and two rim locks go away. You add a skinny bicycle type tube, plastic cover and lightweight rim lock/ pressure valve. Provided plastic tape replaces the rim band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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