sting32

Northern mom, This thread is the typical pontification by older guys, with Viagra enhanced rose colored glasses of days gone by, telling everyone that in the "good old days" that we should go back to. Yeah, I believe these same guys still don't like to admit that their parents had sex, and that it wasn't stoic, or without lust, like we see even on TV nowdays. Sorry, no stop was an "era" kind of like race cars having to be based on actual cars people drive to work. The bitching about long lines, is bullcrap, when you have 100+ riders, there are going to be lines. Even back in the "good ol days" if a section is particularly tough, the lines get even longer. Get over this idea, for god's sake, that you shouldn't have to wait your turn? By god, I live in a town that has less than 1500 people in it, I get ticked off when I have to wait at a stop-sign for more than one car to go by, Imagine how I deal, when I get to a bigger city and there are thousands of cars, DON'T even ask me to take you to the malls! But I tell ya, I'm laughing my butt off about the "imagine the movie, guy stopped with foot down" you think a video like that is going to be released? HA!? I mean lets get real, it isnt 1960 we can edit, and no scene anymore last more than a "one one thousand" count, because everyone watching has ADD/ADHT. But, in an argument I have my version of the same crapy video... I can see the same "shot" that would be on the cutting room floor, so to speak. Here's how it goes. A rider (the only one in line) enters the section, music from "on any sunday in the background" Announcer's voice, who sounds like the guy from kickstart.... "Just look at Jeffrey, on his advanced 2003 designed, 2014 Honda 4rt struggling to get through a rather typical, tough section..." He's shown dabbing 49 times, going at it "no stop" charging up a hostile creek section... and the announcer continues, "well, Jeffrey just saved himself 2 points, by getting a 3 for his effort... Good job Jeffrey" The only way "trials" is going to be anything like the glorified fond memories of the 'good old days' is going to happen, is when we ban trials bikes. Honda will produce a clone of a 68 Norton commando, since they wont have to retool much from the 4rt, lol, and we'll effectively have to BAN nose wheelies and anything deemed "advanced techniques" which surfaced after 1979...

reedblock is what the rubber boot in front of the carb is connected to with that hoseclamp, just FYI. It has at least one gasket, take care removing, you can make the gasked if you get enough to draw onto sheet of material available an any autoparts stores.

How the heck did you screw up and ruin the cylinder and piston? forget to put 2stroke oil in the gas?

This is too bad it happened to you this way, but I guess there needs to be a "what do I need to do before starting a bike (at least without fuel injection or self pumping carbs) manual out there somewhere... there would be 3 main things you have to do, #1 remove air cleaner, look for nests, check filter foam. If you run this engine with disentergrating foam you will suck it all into engine/carb/cylinder. Most foam filters start to dissolve after a few short years, they'll dry out over time (worse on bikes left outside, become rats nests, and disintegrate when you try to wash/do maintenance on them. Kicking a bike with a rats nest for aircleaner, causes more trouble than average "tinkerer" will deal with, as sucking dirt and crap into crankcase then cylinder is a deathnell for the machine, without lots of care used to clean all that crap out before it runs. #2 remove carb, clean then dissemble, cleaning everything inside the carb, jets and choke circuits like a madman. #3remove, clean out tank, install a filter between tank shutoff and carb, unless you see one or tank is perfect without gunk or dirt. #4 remove the spark plug, check for spark. if there is exessive "wet" on the plug (because you were impatient and kicked engine over without the above mantenance done you might have a problem... I have seen bikes that leak fuel from petcock, into the carb which has the floats stuck, and continue to leak into the crankcase until tank is empty. UNTIL #2 are done, there is only a 1 in 100 chance you will start the engine. you must get air (not gunk) with fuel, and lastly spark for the engine to run. If the bike/plane/tractor et al, had been prepped for storage (most don't becaue the "last time they rode it, they assumed they'd ride it again soon enough), gas would been drained from everything that can Todays at the pump fuels in the USA anyhow, after about 90 days, the gas turns into a paste at worst, at best the fuel becomes rotten.

dbell, I have posted this before and probably more than once... either here, or at thumpertalk, or ADVrider. I didnt go find it, Ill repost it from memory/knowledge. 1st off lets agree with some terminology, as I talk about this from my experiences over the past 11-12 years at least. In my earlier days, of riding a 1999 gasgas321, I got online at the "previously used before -trials central- web forums (trials action) that is gone... I found out that using (please pardon the amounts could be off) 450cc' of ATF instead of the 500cc of whatever came in the bike at factory, on that engine, seems to help with the way the clutches tried to keep the bike moving when clutch pulled. I bought the 99 in 2000 or 2001, used of course. That is what I call "Dragging" Then in late 05, Dad got our own 1st Pro engined 04 300 PRO. a few short months later I made a deal on a good used one, from one of Kansas at the time up and coming trials riders. as he took all of his trick parts off it, which I agreed to, he explained a bunch of things that our importer and I am sure other USA National's riders had share with him. One was using about 50cc less oil in the trans, at the time Jake was using "Rock Oil" that I dont have a clue where to get it, it was all that was left from case or 2 he'd acquired. I liked it. It was I believe a full synthetic transmission oil, which not much later we were buying GM's Auto trak because easier to find, though expensive. To me, this made the clutch so you could feather the clutch a helluva lot more than with std ATF, which grabbed about like the Montesa's do. IT was NOT HUGE change, but significant enough to ME, that I kept with this oil type. I still believe that PRO level riders like the quick grabbing instant clutch in gear of ATF, to jump big stuff, without losing power to clutch that slips a little at first as you let go of the lever... I am guessing that from comments I have heard, not that I ever feel like the clutch slips when you let go, but I dont EVER rev the engine to 7THOUSAND RPMS and jump up a 15 foot cliff either. So, I might be calling it wrong, but the oil I like, makes the clutch in my mind, more progressive. Like a dimmer switch effect compared to a regular light switch. I like that, when I need to feather the clutch for about 5 milimeters of motion, at the point where my finger handles the lever, I have anywhere from 10% clutch engagement, to full engagement, meaning the rear wheel has to slip if anything gives or clutch out all the way... You use this in tight as hell turning sections, unless your a hopper I guess. I am barely a hopper, I am a damn good turner, ask anyone that knows me, then I can usually hop one time with rear if I need to. I get tired easily so saving energy is key. Maybe everyone else thinks Progressive means it is the other way? I use 0w/30 thanks to friends that experiment more than I do, and because YAMALUBE doesn't make the 5w/30 I used FIRST, after having to abandon the GM AUTOTRAK 2 stuff we were using. I really like it, but I dont have mountains to ride, just hills here in KS, I never ever felt it slip, I am very PICKY and careful adjusting my clutch, and I have those S-3 or Jitsie adjusters on my clutch to fine tune as it warms up riding, never turn it more than 1/4 turn, but I have turned it 3 times at our last trials during that day on the loop. things have to happen with my finger and this adjusts where the clutch does what it does reach wise on my finger. Some people like my son and other newer riders just adjust themselves to the clutch. might be better, when my clutch messed up, my day is ruined (let the resivior get dry once last year) where my son probably just complain but keep going, if you know what I mean. OK, I better add this. You ASK "I have the same bike as you, 2011 Raga 300. How would you compare the feel of the 0w/30 yamalube to straight ATF type F?" I feel like you and I probably agree if our teminology is the same, the ATF the clutch is closer to a light switch, with this Yamalube I use, I have 5 or more millimeters of different and varying clutch grab or bite, and yeah I cant really say it, been long dang time since I used ATF, but I think it lets go of the clutch (less drag) when you pull it in. Again depending on riding ability, it might mean less, to me though, I dont like ATF, but I could make myself get used to it again if I had to. A tiny bit of less grabby can mean more traction a lot of the time, as the tire's on something just waiting to spin/slip off? But just means you have to be more accurate with clutch with ATF, really. DISCLAIMER to anyone else reading this thread. Since I dont have my oil can here that I have written exactly how man CC's of oil I do USE religiously, and because I wrote it down I don't try to remember it. SO, PLEASE ask someone for actual values, don't use what I said. All I can recall is it was like 50cc's less than manuals state?

That is exactly what I would do, just FYI. I dont know what all questions you got, lay them out, if I can recall or point you somewhere, I sure will. Like I said, I have either a 92 or 93 just like that one you show the picture of in 2nd post. I also owned a 95 for a while. Dad and I try to keep a bike to lure in new riders, then all of a sudden "we've got too many bikes" the herd gets thinned, then here we go again happens. I really want to find a 97-98 250 just like this one, my current newby is going to buy from me (found it for him, actually). my Raga 300 is probably scary for any new rider.

What you will NEED to do, is try a few. The 0w/30 yamalube is where i have ended up at, after trying many different brands and flavors of oils, over several years now again (for PRO model bikes, since 2005 or so, when I got my first 04 Pro). I started out with ATF, we kept a lot of "technically it is ATF Type F" on the farm, because Case/IH tractors used it for transmission/hydraulics, so I used it. Then I got told to try this, rode many a friends' bikes, listened, and tried what they like, since we compete with or against each other we shared things. Everything I tried after I liked how the clutch acted, came down to I didnt want to have to order from UK, and wait 1 month or whatever. I also edit my previous post.

I could be wrong on the octane. I havent had the chore of going 30 miles to get it since I got the new job... I know it has to be NON ETHANOL. Ethanol and my 2stroke premix oil does NOT mix, and actually gums up the main jet in my Kehins. it did this repeatedly once a month I had to remove carb, clean out a "jelly" blob in the jets. once i quit using pump gas at all (10-15% ethanol and they dont have to tell you it has it in it anymore). I am lucky so far, 1 station that I know the owner, buys NO-Ethanol gas, which right now usually only sells for 2 pennies more, all the time. My car gets more than 10% better fuel mileage on the same gas.

DBELL, the only part that is shorter on the new kicker is, the amount of the lever you foot actually rests on, or the top bar of the 7 so to speak...

Coop, Yeah, the interest would be low. Sort of, the bike is 20 years old. I happen to have a 93, that I ended up with because it was taking up space and the guy didn't want it. the 1st gaser I ever bought actually was in 2001, and it was a 1999 321, more or less same bike and engine, with newer better brakes and bigger engine, some other designs & tweaks, you know. Everything "interest wise" has no definition. I dont know your background, but I can tell you I have ridden trials since the 70's. I rode 1 motocross in my life, at age 20, in 86. if you are into motocross competition, by any chance... then you know nobody is wishing I had an OLD 92 Yamaha yz250 they could buy to start competing with buddies that have the new bikes they sell. BUT IT IS Not really any lack of ability of that 92, just that it is OLD. I think capabilities of the bike could easily be tweaked, and we all know Milsaps or Dungy would kick any of us's ass on even that older bike with their skill/fitness. I believe the exact same that Bou or Raga or the type would kick most anyone's ass riding that 92, even with some on the new stuff. I mean the 92&93 was when Jordi Tares won everything I think. Thinking out loud, and logically.... I think I would want it (the old MX bike) that I could buy really reasonable for age, and give MX riding and racing a try and see if I wanted to keep on competing in MX or just put around local tracks or off road areas. It should be a lot cheaper to purchase compared to the nearly $7000 (USD) of the newest bikes available. But I think I am a "cheaper and on a budget" thinker, and I also would not necessarily expect that 2 exact same skill guys, one on the latest and greatest MX out there, vs the 92, would have same results all the time, there are going to be reasons that the 450's are what they ride and win on week to week, that trickles down even to amature riders of any given sport. So this JT25, bike is the same for trials guys, many of us might have had one, but Like me, I have an 2011 Raga, no way I am looking back, know what I mean there? But I wouldnt be afraid to own it as such, even just to let "buddies" or new friends that might finally show an interest, give it a ride, instead of risking them on my Raga. The upside down forks are the only big deal, eventually the seals will leak, and being upside down they will leak even sitting in the garage, until empty of course. Regular forks when seals leak, only leak when you ride them, unless for some reason you store the bike upside down, LOL

I think we're buying VP's 116 octane (NO ETHANOL) race fuel, then we mix it with NO ETHANOL pump gas, 1 gallon race with 2 gallons PUMP seems to work good. Dale definitely knows more than I do, but I personally never ran MY bikes with the jets that shipped with it, so I never have heard the ping, unless I rode a friends that had stock jets, plus I have no clue about what gas he had in the bike either.

Hopefully Dale will give feedback to the factory, I think he visits them about this time of year, LOL!!!

Nicos, Oil and usage (SPECIFICALLY FOR Gas Gas, since this is the SUB-FORUM we're in) and everything has been beat to death on this forum, and at least 3 other forums (english speaking ones I visit daily). What worked for my buddy in is Sherco, didnt work for him in his Gas Gas, a few years ago, so it is all about what brand and what model, I guess. I wouldn't put the same oils into my RM 250, or the Kawasaki 200 dirt bike either. totally different duty they do to the engines built for that purpose. The oil industry is going to convince you that their oil is the best for you, that is how they make money. Gas Gas says use 5w/30 engine oil. TRials competition riders, had been using Automatic Transmission fluid for nearly a decade and even in the older engines, however it was different brands and what not. FWIW, the only questionable item of note that has been documented (that I have found) was the that the usage of General Motors branded, AUTO TRAk - 2, has been DISCOURAGED, or warned to no longer use it apparently, and agreeable I guess because I dont know anyone that can disprove the concerns noted by Gas Gas UK. I myself and my family, have used ATF, Type f, I have used dextron 2 and 3, I really loved and have used GM auto trak 2, for 4 or five years, in 8 different bikes, I DONT ANYMORE. I dont believe I ever had the "Clutch FIber disk swelling problem" they report to have. I have, for 3 years now, since been convinced to run other oils. I use a 5/w30 semi synthetic engine oil. If you are trying to MOTOCROSS or DRAG RACE a trials bike, you probably better come up with something besides "MFG recommendations" for oil to protect your engine. The suitability of any oil, is determined by how you use the bike, other wise known as a DUTY cycle. We ride "TRIALS" events or PRACTICE TRIALS events, which typically means for one full day on sunday, my Raga will idle for 80% of those 5 hours, will rev up to half the capasity so I guess maybe 4000 RPMS, for maybe 32 times, for a grand total of 5 minutes, that is unless I fall off the bike and the throttle gets stuck on at some point. The PRO riders are harder on the engines, they're the ones that seem to provide feedback down through support, for MFG's, at least the importers of our bikes. that is how we find out that everyone was using ATF way back when. there wasn't a problem, most problems are because neglected oils, IMHO. So for all of us that ride trials on these bikes, Oil Cleanliness, is more critical than brand or weight. The 5w/30 vs ATF, vs Semi-synthetic has more to do with how I "tune" how the clutch acts and feels to what I have become very picky about. We change the oil every 10-15 hours of "ride time" that means I can practice a few times, but before my sunday events, I change my oil. So it behoves you to get inexpensive and readily available good reputable brand oil, so that you can change it often and not go broke. GM's autotrack was like 8 bucks or more a quart, if you ordered it a case at a time. what I run now is less than half that, I believe. Hope this helps you. EDIT: Make sure you understand they SUGGEST that you dont use GM AUTOTRAK2. In case I was unclear. BTW, I cant get my Yamalube in 5w/30 anymore (though I still have one quart at my shop). I use 0w/30 yamalube. Some southern USA people say Yamaha doesn't carry it, as it is for colder (snow mobile) engines? I wouldnt know, I know I get it when I want some, because my buddy carries it at his Yamaha shop, he likes it in his Gas Gas too, which helps availability. Also I would like to explain where I come up with the thinking I have... I have a teenager that is not my son, that I just started to teach in this sport of trials. So, that is one of the things I try to think about, The Low $ funding of his pursuit, he works after school, and all but still, motorcycling without parental involvement when not fully employed (or not) seems to take a few bucks... that is why our main concern is that he uses "what is inexpensive and CONVENIENT for him to get. Right now of course I buy a case so he can buy a quart from me as long as I have one. Others newbies might be in the same boat. takes a couple of years worth of Quarter and Dollars (apposed to nickel dime) to get you supplies up, unless again you already have this stuff, or have money. whatever bike you buy, you need access or own the flywheel puller, spare clutch and brake levers, Dot5 dot4 and or mineral oil (I replace mineral oil in clutch with dot5 myself. plenty of 2 stroke mix, race fuel, boots helmet gloves, ramp or trailer.... take care

Just FYI, the noise and damage cause when you tried to start the engine that is already started, is honestly one of those ratio's of luck... 90 times out of 100 nothing happens, 5 times a tooth on either the kicker gear or the idler gets a nick in it, from your own description my bet is that the idler gear, got nicked, because it turns all the time with clutch basket. Ok now where my luck kicks in (except if I enter the lottery) I had the circlip come off the kickstart shaft, on a brand NEW raga. It managed to flick itself into the teeth in the clutch basket, it then stuck there and went round and and round through the crank gear and the idler gear, it made a racket, we shut it off instantly, and still went through several tries at "parts swapping" until we even reluctantly even considered the clutch basket, and swapped it. and actually bent the clutch basket enough, that once we changed the clutch basket, the noise went away finally.

ATF of any flavor, in my experience at least, makes the clutch grab more. This is great for those that hop, and do big SPLATTERS and Stuff. Change the oil with less than 12 hours of engine running time, is a damn good rule as well. it lubes the gears, as well as the grits from the clutch fiber plates, and on the new models (pro engines) it lubes the crank main bearings, so keep it changed and clean.

I tap on my flywheel and re-torque, when I put a flywheel on, I have a nice snapon plastic mallet, and NO! I rap on it, in the center, not swinging like I am tearing out concrete.

that looks good actually. Design might not SOLELY been weigh savings, the less the arm sticks out, the less leverage you have on the "shaft" when you kick against compression like some are doing, I don't know just thinking out loud though... lost track so Ill just ask, what CC is yours?

Neutron, seriously, dad and I have been in the "motorcycle thing" for 45 or more years, and without a calculator, you cannot count how many times we've watched from afar, people rip right into that $40k new pickup, due to "not pointing a bike, especially new rider or used & unknown maintenance history-bike... Weather it is from being ridden for the 1st time, or some newb's first time... Then there are the 5 or more times I have had the clutch not let go for myself and take me out the "handlebar width opened" sliding doors on the shop. Hell one time I was lucky I was 12 feet from the door when the bike I was holding, slipped into gear while I was getting a rag or putting on my gloves, It took me 11.9 feet, to get it stopped, (I'm short, and I was kinda scooped off my feet by rear fender... then about 2 months ago, I was prepping to be washing my 2011 raga 300 pro, I caught my jeans on the shifter, JUST as I was dismounting my still running bike, which whacked it into gear on me, flipping me head over heals within 3 feet of where I was, as it high sided me, with only one arm still holding the bike (yep, the throttle hand)... luckily I was able to think quickly let go of throttle grip as well, else I would have probably traveled 50 ft at as fast as the "Some beyotch" could go in 2nd gear, WFO. It can happen so fast, and IMHO it can or will happen to all of us I think, lol. I never leave my bike running, on kickstand nor throttle side agains the tree (tree/sapling nestled or wedged between throttle and brake lever especially) unless I was brain dead tired anymore... unless I have found neutral with my hands, or have just started it, and I start after carefully finding NEUTRAL, and have not put it in gear yet... Oh, and definitely don't lean it on it's handlebars on the bed of the pickup, lol. dont ask me how I came up with that rule, which is TRIALS rule 43...

You can always take a look at the parts diagrams at Gas Gas.com or Gas Gas's (.es) spain (AKA manufacture's website, might tell you what your doing wrong. Which carb do you have? Kehin's are tricky to take apart, and assemble, if you force it on the Kehin, you can bend stuff.

If new, I know MOST motorcycles come with "pass the emissions testing" jets, which are LEAN jets for a 1000ft elevation? In Kansas at 1000ft, 1st thing I do after I take a bike out of the cardboard, and grease everything is to check the main and pilot, for where I ride! this is easier for me, I have had several years of the "same bike" and can usually just make sure I have the same 2 jets. The main rattling is usually clutch basket noise, so pull the clutch when you do this (clean out), tell me if the noise changes and goes away? Else it could be like everyone else says, something is loose, usually the Fuel tank will be like "The Who's" concert system (sorry obscure reference to a group that set decibel records back when, at concerts around the world) which highly amplifies sounds. So it might be nothing. I have had to take the tank loose and see if I need another piece of foam around where it rides in the frame... that or get it to dealer/mechanic have them check it out.

FYI those old style clutches did that on a lot of different bike brands. what happens is they sit and squeeze the oil out between the "6 layers" of clutches. so now they are like suction cups holding themselves together, with a microlayer of oil. So you usually have to start the bike after even as few as 1 to 3 months of storage. So the routine is, make sure you are pointed towards open country, and now you know, roll forward as you Bang it into 1st, holding on so you can get on it. While riding rear brake you pull the clutch repeatedly. it will turn loose in a few seconds. if you ride more often this didnt happen, lol. I have had this happen on older beta's and yamaha's and other bikes. Yes, change the oil good luck.

So, We're supposed to guess at what bike you are working on, and then figure out how you fixed a fork? the shifting forks are inside transmission, and you would have had to remove engine, taken off the cylinder, split the cases. any other "forks" you saw, would be a guess. there are manuals in "video" format, but they are for the newer "pro" model bikes and engines, that the USA parts distributer, and Trials Bike importer created for us "english" speaking Gas Gas trials bike owners. you could look here http://www.youtube.com/user/GASGASinfo but again this would be the newer models, not the "321" or that era, because those manuals were produced and dubbed onto VHS tapes, and again for USA distribution (if you dont live in usa or canada, your TV uses a different video "recording and displaying" format, I am told, so even if I had the VHS tape around here (which I dont) that I could send, you probably couldnt watch it because of this.)

Modifier, Not just Gas Gas. Problem is if you think about it, Gas Gas has more bikes in usa than just about any others added together. so more people, more problems. SO anecdotal evidence says it is a Gas Gas problem. It is a scary thing, this is one reason some are doing the kill switch tether, kills the bike before it can wind up like that, when you fall off... Any-who what you need to know is the TUNE of a trials bike is seemingly quite like them old glow plug Cox .049 engines, you surely had one as a kid? when the engine revs to the moon, things get hot enough no spark needed. if you get to the bike QUICKLY if this happens to you, usually killswitch works. If you get delayed too long, it happens, then you need to control the situation. many panic and attempt to pick up the bike, which jumps out of their hands of course, and takes out or rams through anyone else trying to help or tries to make its way through anything like trees, rocks, or riverbank near you. You have to control panic, and be careful. Best advice is to get the clutch, get the bike up enough to get pushing on rear brake, let out clutch, stop the engine. But it can be hard to do. A boot or a gloved hand over the exhaust can burn the hell out of your hand. but wadding up more gloves and stuffing it on exhaust can slow engine down enough to help kill the bike with kill switch

Pro's are a trick to kick though, takes a technique... many are used to kicking a dirtbike or thumper, that is all I was saying...

Yeah Lazer that is it. I mentioned it, I might have confused some, at the "deflector at the opening." FWIW! Caution, You DO NOT want to restrict the air. IMHO, you dont want the airbox sucking in air from anywhere else except under the tank! I think I have turned the little flap on the bottom over each time I take the airbox off. when I know it is going to be a wet day, on one bike I added another layer of "plastic milk-jug plastic flap" 3-4ths the width of the original flap, helping to keep the flap closed, I am glad as hell I did, I rode into a creek, that went up to the tank for just a second (hole) and I didnt kill the bike, like another did, in Tishomingo. Keep that bottom hole almost sealed... if you hit top of cylinder high water, water rushes into that airbox like a ship with the hole in the bottom, plus the carb opeing is only just above your cases. Here's the waterlines of your aribox opening, roughly...