sting32

HE SAID he believes it has lost (considerable by his description) COMPRESSION! Dang.

JSE, that is per inch in DIAMETER of bore, am I right? Measure the OLD rings' ring gaps at top and mid stroke Right JSE? Near the top should be like a "reference" of how big the bore was when new, then mid way down, will be bigger slightly, and the gap should be (slightly) bigger... EXAMPLE on a 300 the piston is 3 inches in diameter, I believe, so you should have .3 milimeters (0.0117 inches) before the rings had any wear... IF I DID THE MATH CORRECTLY? Trying to figure what 25% more would be.. I guess if ring gap on this 300 was around or bigger than .0146, then replace rings. .375 mm. Well fxs, You decided to do what I said, even after these other guys chimed in, which shouldn't be a problem! But, be sure to order the BASE (of cylinder) gaskets, and head orings while you order... What usually happens is, you take cylinder off, see what color gaskets you have. then order the same ones!!! (color designates thickness) from factory they were supposed to install the minimum thickness for that particular engine/parts combination after all was machined, and mated. 2 same bikes same year can and might have different combinations of base gaskets... Make sure you check ring gap of new rings! ****EDIT**** JSE (Gas Gas technical guru) updated me a few posts below... When measuring ring gap, you need to set the ring at the original bore diameter (such as at the top of the Cylinder, above where the installed ring tops out). I don't know how big the 250 piston is though, in Diameter. so be sure to use JSE's post to do your MATH. If you are CAREFUL, you might not need either of them, but most times if you do mangle the base gaskets. Learning to install the head, with the orings that seem ever so "slightly" bigger around than the groove is around the cylinder, you could pinch one if NOT CAREFUL. So, they're cheap, and when you want one or both, you have to wait on the mailman again, and that just sucks, lol.

Give him a five, see if you get punched by the rider, and rushed by the crowd, lol.

I think EVEN MR "JSE" could tell me if I was wrong, but RINGS are a wear item. I wouldn't hesitate to at least re-ring the existing setup, that is if there isnt a piston rattle (not to be confused of course with CLUTCH BASKET rattle... At least while you have to remove the cylinder, you could inspect. Deep gouges, stuff like that, you would need help via people that do this sort of thing, more than just once or twice in a few years.

GlennP... The main reason the bike is hard to start, compared to "Japanese" bikes in general, is the "UBER LIGHTWEIGHT" design of this particular bike, and OSSA as well. you have only just over 45 degrees of rotation to light the bike off, where on some bikes I have, you have 180 degree of kick shaft movement, helps a bunch. plus more people I watch trying the Gas Gas for the 1st time are lazy kickers, and you cannot be one. You have to use your legs not body weight to accelerate your kick. there are tips and tricks already posted for starting a pro, you just have to look around. Neutron says it like it is. :thumb

I paid nearly $200 or more in the USA to have a "non rebuildable" sacs shock rebuilt... so your pounds to dollars converter probably is close to what it takes. You pay for the guy's knowledge, and the tools of the trade, just like anything else... Only computer's do you get to have your 12 year old fix it for you for free...

I have seen and used a thicker black gasket, for the clutch cover, that seems 10x better than the crappy little paper thin gaskets. Problem is I don't know where they come from. I bet lewissport (if your in USA) can get them. Ask around where you guys have more dealers and parts vendors overseas..

There are at least 3 video of trials in Japan, where this one rider tries backflipping in more than trials event. the last one I saw him try he failed, on the "step step step" video, or something like that was the name (might find it on youtube)...

Impeller is plastic. IS threaded BTW it will be "backwards thread" onto that shaft. Yes, it could be stripped , but I dont know. IMHO you know how easy it is to strip any screw or bolt that is RUN into plastic? Main thing is, flush the crap out of there, these bikes are built with the intentions of HIPAA, aka "Just Enough to do its job" this keeps the bikes light. that much crud just might disturb the ability to "flow" and such the water just turns around the pump? the design of that bike, was introduced that exact year you have. It save at least 10 or 12 pounds over the previous engine used. So you can imagine, EVERYTHING about it was new. That gunk, Looks like staled up (new style) Antifreeze. just like I had in a blazer, even though it was daily driven, it crystalized... I have a tractor that is older with old style antifreeze from probably the 80's in it, the old stuff doesn't do that, had some gas in it too, smelled and looked better than the gas delivered just 4 short months ago, fwiw. but stuff we buy nowdays will. they say change that every few years in our cars, never used to, but do now, even if only because the plastic radiator breaks, or waterpump fails, lol. laughingly I will say, usually the "pro" by most anyone's accounts, has been taken apart a few times by it's first let alone it's second birthday, so that fluids are changed, even if owner didn't by choice... stored in a box in a hot warehouse? hmmm... Taking that bike out of the crate yourself, you probably should go thrugh and grease (adding grease) to all the bearings. Not sure, in 02 they might have done better, but newer bikes they dont put much grease on anything. Usually a good dealer does that when they unbox though.

Many people's first time (on pro waterpumps) manage to put seal in backwards, just FYI. Also not sure how you got the seal out without harm, and make DAMMED sure, that the little shaft has absolutely no groves worn in it, if grooved, replace shaft. NEW batches from Gas Gas I was told finally got the shaft's hardened finally done right, so you might not groove a shaft for a while, however how old the stock on shelf of parts guy, could be an issue still?

I was going to say, no gasser should rubbing from NEW, that is until someone falls off the damn thing on the right side, lol. the muffler/silencer bend kind of easily, so if you do fall in anyway that hit's the silencer, check it and bend it back, I can do it with one hand... However, depending of course how much you bend things, eventually you bend it 4 or 10 times, you'll have to have the mounting tabs re-welded I usually fall off the bike to the left, so, if yours is rubbin, then you or the last person didn't notice it, so fix it. 02 and 03 Pro's had a STEEL muffler (mid box) all others have alum, with varying by year mufflers and silencers just little tabs welded and holes drilled that you put screws through. I have up until about 08 models, reinforced these with a welder eventually, and after having to bend them back a few times, once you strengthen them with little gusset a little, it will be no issues. Well I guess your mileage will vary, but that is what seems for me...

that routine above can stop brake squeel too... I usually use brake cleaner (arisol cans) to get any oily and crap off rotors. Sometime the pads just soak up too much. ALso pads as they get thin IMHO brake very much LESS, I assumed the caliper's buttons at end of stroke but I think in reality, the pads lose something, maybe with how they're glued when made? new pads always seem to stop my bike better, they're cheap.

No idea if this could be "THE" catastrophic cause, but when you removed the brass plug, you surely didnt lose that tiny shim in there, that goes on the shaft... sounds to me like you have a problem, 1st thing to check probably is that the waterpump can and will function properly, and all that, you will need to drain again, lay bike on its side, remove the pump from case and hoses..might have to flush with air and water if you lost that little shim, it could be caught somewhere in the cooling jacket, or could lodge I guess and ruin the impeller on the pump, it is only plastic. disassemble the pump and inspect. You will ruin the seal most likely, so order a W-P seal kit, it comes with new hard shaft, impeller and seal, and you might need to get that little shim seperately... before doing too much, goto youtube hunt for user "gasgasinfo," find the water-pump movie. (ok Ill post link to that user http://www.youtube.com/user/gasgasinfo) OK harder to find, so here is the WP movie for pro... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEqQvL23bgs Dont give up, they re-use footage everywhere, so he ties waterpump up as if to do something else, next scene is working on pump... FWIW, to remove the seal, his way is goofy. I leave shaft and everything together, stick a punch on the shaft from outer side, and tap with hammer pushing everything and seal out of housing. Be carefull, if you hit hard and chip housing anywhere, or bugger the threads on the drain/busing area, you will be buying a housing. FWIW there is a thermostat on that top hose, (where you said it is hot) just above that arrow, but unlike cars, it doesn't block any circulation, all it does is house a thermo switch touching the water, that activates the fan when it reaches temps, like 170-180 degrees (F) I think it is. Something is blocked or the blades on the pump "impeller" are a problem, IMHO. and of course overheated now, you might have O-Ring issues in the head, which is instead of a "Head Gasket" but if you noticed overheat condition, quick enough, maybe not. Maybe the old anitfreeze turned to crystals? I had a 99 Chevy blazer that the 'new-fangled' coolant did this, after about 3 years or more... filled the radiator with plugs, luckily back flushing worked for me... could have been expensive...

Yeah with what Baldilocks said get the old style, because that was the dumbest thing Gas Gas did, the pedals are technically pre bent "new". I bought me a straight shaped aftermarket billet alum version, that I take bke to bike since I got it about 3 or 4 years ago. I haven't broken nor bent it in several years (knock on wood). it wasn't cheap, but seems to be worth it.

This is a place that we'll think we can give feedback, try to gain/persuade others to like minded ideas. Granted, we're going to be stuck, eventually, if we can't get enough voices one way or the other... And yep, we'll deal with whatever rules, or we'll goto some other hobby. I have a feeling FIM will have to reverse the decision, but then again, over there I guess it is more "dictatorship" as apposed to deciding with overwhelming support of the decision. This going ahead with the dumb idea with 50/50 almost tie is bull and you all know it, means to most people it was not overwhelmingly supported, and should been left alone until a bigger majority could agree on something to try. I guess I just see and hear more people feeling like I do, maybe not exactly but close. And as usuall, big names seem to mean more votes than people like me, who will finally blow his stack and post on here at some point. Or we'll quietly move on, I guess. No Stop caused a whole bunch of BS calls to happen back in the day, so they dropped it, so that if for nothing else, Scorekeepers no longer had to "guess" if rider A did or didn't fail, because you know as well as I do watching those videos were talking hard to tell differences.... ALL of this, which changes the outcome of who's the best. My problem is, if you let this doubtful quantity of calls to to not only get started, then continue, that us dumb as hell. and how many times have you had to judge sections from some place 20 yards away, not like that camera view... while they're working a turn or what not. Right now all I worry about is did he dab, did he run out of bounds, did he cross his tracks, which are FREAKING provable, not "guessable" as long as you are seeing it. But unlike the camera position in the video, are you going to be able to perceive that every nuance, from up above where the section ends? We can't even have highly educated, highly trained judges, who have to "decide" if the word "is" mean what it means. Then I wager, these same "Judges" after even a year or 2 of training, are going to have one HELLUVA time deciding the difference of the rides in the VIDEO, even if they had 24 trials to practice making the calls, and maybe have "replay" like we do in some pro sports! This is why people that can see where this is heading, are like me, going "WTF?" why do this? where as those who think it will make the lines shorter, that balancing a bike and hoppng is NOT a skill, cant figure out why we hate the idea, of putting this much pressure and demand on our "Volunteer, unpaid and usually not trained" judges... Let alone try to ban a pretty dang impressive skill. I don't care I can only hop now and again anyhow... There is a clear and present history, let alone danger... As I know, we've had those people now with "stop rules" in place, fail to judge correctly.... I know, because one judge at a nationals "felt" that if anyone stopped for any reason in his section, it was a five, even though he'd been given instructions and whatever training on judging they give, he still gave out fives. I tell you, if im looking to compete in nationals, and I drive 500 or even 12 miles to an event, and mine and others, but not everyone's results are blown, doe to crap calls.... just like crooked referees at a basket ball game, don't you worry, the lines for the sections will have fewer riders. Because we all know it becomes "politcal" just like I mentioned before, Raga was almost unknown, gets stop points "judgement call" when on video he clearly didn't earn any. Plus in the USA how many times have you heard your stiffest competition complain to the judges that they mmissed something when you rode a section? Anyway, back to Raga... Sure, young and determined he kept riding and eventually became the best rider in the world, but some, I'm too old to want to spend my hard earned money and energy, to put up with that crap. I wont overcome that. I feel if nothing else, professional riders will Lose sponsorship alone due to bad calls? lose your ride? I just think it is asking for more problems than it can possibly fix.

Did you watch the video?

what year bike? in 2006 they changed the 'spring rate" you might say, of that "bellville spring" doesn't look like a spring... BIKES BUILT BEFORE --> 2006, it is easier to pull just by updating the spring. I think it costs about $15 for the spring, depends on shipping I guess. not sure what else you can do to make it easier, other than the closer to 19mm the easier the "pull" is (has to do with leverage I understand). Anything over 19 though, you risk slipping, because when cover is on, the fingers can ONLY raise to 19.5 (that would be depending on which gasket you use as well on the case). the paper cheapy ones, are really thin.

We're not alone (those of us that refute that no stop is any kind of answer)... You guys got facebook? Might as well get on there, top riders even from few years back are agreeing, no-stop is really going to cause scoring troubles, that we just don't need to add troubles to this sport... "I want to see boxing matches that will appear when observers will give five for certain movements with this new rule..." See if you can find these quotes on facebook. There are more of us, that are "don't think so" about this dumb idea of no stop, it didn't work then, why do we think it will work now? NATC better fully staff about 5+ people and secretaries, for the protest booth each event!

Nope Lineaway, I have 2 post in this thread (well now 3) and they all show. Reading your post, about missing pages, I'm wondering if people got all upset, with how I put it? using Martin as an example of "those on that side" from now on Ill just refer to a "non existing" entity called 'oldfanatic&martinnor anyone_elsewontstop' instead. Apologies to Martin, and others, if he/they felt I desecrated him, where I felt I was just being illustrative without repeating 5 or more member's that are parroting the same side of this debate... I guess I watch too much MSNBC, lol. But I'm not here to report the news of this debacle, I was here to shout out my opinion of this debacle. I have to admit, I am preetty much "not on the fence" about no-stop, if you cant tell. It is frustration that gets me to type badly. I miss the "H E Double toothpicks" out of Lane not posting, & Ringo, I guess that is why I'll get on here a few times a week, and flame on. I think it gives people a chance to raise this to a fevered pitch that people will be tuning in to see what will be said next, maybe even stir the pots everywhere. This is because I still visit many web-forums, that have been around longer than this, and well, you know we can get preeeety raunchy beating up on each other... I'll try to tone that down a notch. HOWEVER, for 5 or more years, since they kicked (what the heck was his hande on here (lane Leavitt?) this site was BOORING as heck, now we got some fire or glow, back on the topics' lists.... Monty Python's "I'd like to have an arguement please" skit, is my cell ring back ring tone as well.

H Sure, but I think some people wont like it, what ya think? I rant on, because I spend quite a bit of time trying to argue the 40 or so posts, in one post. The old dogs, think no stop is the answer, that has been proven since before the 90's that it was WORST time in trials judging history. you have to take away the "I dunno, I think he didnt stop" out of the judges descretion, because if I ride the section, he knows who I am, and hates what I posted here, he'll "judgement" that I get a 5, meanwhile Belair, whom is loved by all, will get the clean. It is totally bull snipe. FIM wont take long to figure it out, meanwhile we have to find a way to make non "professional" let alone paid Observers, try to get a "handle" on, "oh shoot, is that a stop, or was that a stop?" can you imagine how many hours the movie will have to be, to even attempt to show even 1/10th of the possibilities an observer might see in a trials today? Watch this one, 10 minutes of your life "training" aint bad, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YT-RCNFDLtc I didnt watch the whole thing yet.... But seems to have what, about 5 -10 different, of "thousands" needed examples. PS use a stop watch, I did on the first 3 "examples, It changed the short ride time by .5 seconds max... "insert toilet flushing sound effects" yep, them queues are emptying by themselves aint they....

Jetting being towards being lean makes the bike SNAPPY, but harder to start warm, (IIRC) so might check what other people near you have for jets. Also kehin VS Delorto use different jet numbers I believe. Plain pro's and econo have dellorto's on them. Race and Raga's have Kehins. Also NOTE, one of the 2 carbs is more "touchy" about opening the throttle during kick, I think it is the Dellorto, come to think of it. But maybe others wil chime in, I think I haven't had a dellorto carbed 300 in several years now, I have the '11 Raga, and starts nice, my dad put the different (lower compression) head insert (race and Raga, come with a removable head "insert" that you can change compression relatively cheaper and easy, unless you think putting 2 more o-rings & a copper gasket, they sell in kit form, that is INEXPENSIVE, into the job of putting the head back on, is easy enough). Seems easier to kick, not a lot taken off the bike power wise, on his 12 Raga. everything about starting the PRO is about the kick, especially the 300's and even more if you have the available HI-COMPRESSION head insert on it.

Hey Ben, Seriously Lineaway is right about everything so far, in our experience, the clutches dont go "bad" normally, so 1st thing we'd do is check all of these things in order. 1st being that the lever has a tiny free play before the actual plunger (behind the rubber boot) moves, 2 that the plunger behind the boot, is coming to rest on the C-Clip, if it doesnt then the clutch slave is NOT being let off the last little bit. Then when you think that is all good, you take the side case off, with bike laid on side of course, and using a slide caliper measuring device, you measure up how high the fingers are above the inside of the basket back wall (not where the screw holds clutch on shaft, but beside it). if it is about 19.5 mm MAXIMUM height, after that they slip all the time because the levers cannot rais that HIGH with cover on... The MOVIE I'll link to, will explain and give you the exact measurements. you would remove the thicker of the plates, you deside this with same tool measuring thickness, the ones without padding, but NOT the bottom plate! thinner one lower the fingers. I have 5 of 5 times, had to do the opposite, put in thicker plates, to get fingers close to Snells max settings, makes clutch pull easier and "slower"... Here is the link to the movie that shows you how to fix clutch to Specs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjoj7n74G0s&list=PL391F2719952C8DFB part1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0adW9BsAN4 part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=336BDbcZEMM Part 3Reason for several movies I believe because of updates, watch them all, then watch the main one you feel helps you the most... Good luck

It is a joke, that anyone thinks the 'queues' are going to go away, except when nobody shows up to ride! paul w: Go ride FREAKING motocross and endurocross then! Been there done that one as well, My Brother still competes, he pays craploads of money to enter the park (most of the fees are to cover insurance, AMA, and land usage) plus $$ for his kids to "watch." He gets to ride 15 minutes for practice, and THEN, one 15 minute heat, if he doesn't qualify for the race, he's done and might as well go home. Gee that is fun and "valuable riding time" to compare to riding time at a trials! Last time I went with him to "practice day" he got to ride for 30 minutes, I paid $15 just to walk in and watch while on crutches no less. Outside Denver fwiw. Trials Club events, I get to ride a minimum of 3-4 hours, few other fees involved, and I'm sure we're just lucky in kansas, non member price to ride is $16 plus your travel costs. If you wanna ride and get some 'time to ride," you ride trials. But, you don't goto a nationals, they give you like 6 hours, because some OLD FARTS, the same one's that think trials needs to be no-stop, that are the ones that think it is "broken," have forever thought the loop has to be 40 miles. Friggin riders are tired, and someone sets a section that is aimed at the top 1% of the riders of that class, to have a difficult time (hoping to get Bou like riders to take a point or 2, which only happens when his life is at risk, so to speak). Stop or NO STOP the competition is going to cause lines in particularly hard sections. No stop wont change stuff. Watching riders other than the top 2 riders, in Particularly challenging sections will ONLY have people trying to keep "going forward," and dabbing like hell, just to get through, which is no different than today. You know I'm right, you recall without the rose colored glasses from the 80's how long it took to ride sections, isn't much different today, since we allow only so many seconds in each section, stopped or NOT! What the Belair's of the world want, reminds me of hillclimb competitions, maybe NATC should look into changing EVERYTHING trials, to that format. Charge up that friggin hill, nobody stops, bikes are destroyed which helps the hell out of the MFG's and parts departments. Whoo Hoo! Lastly, It is freaking ridiculous A good AMATEUR rider, rides over crap we dreamed of riding over as experts/Master in the friggin 70's Don't act dumb, get that old 2 shocker out, and jump them logs you do now without even an effort, tell me what is up! My main argument is, No stop just one more time, gives a Baloney call back to "judgment" call of the section observer. This is BALONEY, and they know it, it is NOT FAIR, and never will be. this is WHY it was let go long ago, the stop was allowed. Again I call your attention to WORLD ROUNDS, where they tried to IMPLEMENT STOP POINTS, there is documentation called TRIALS TV, where even just watching the seconds tic by on the VIDEO, that they did NOT give points to the TOP 3 WORLD riders who took longer to get through the same parts of the section, yet Raga was given stop points, when it can be proven he took less time all the way through the section? When I get home tonight Ill post up the tittle of the DVD, and which section, in case you all forgot. you guys act as though MOTO-CRoss hasn't had to move on. Tripple jumps? excuse me? little 1 foot mounds used to kill riders & even break bikes, let alone the little whoops sections, and a 2 foot mound used as a jump.... now days they jump half a football field, why aren't they going back to "no jump" rules? Because they know it is ridiculous to go back to 1977...

FWIW, Taking the engine out of the frame, you need a flywheel puller!. Why you might ask... Well, you dont want to have to yank all the wiring loose, especially under the tank. so you take off flywheel, remove 3 or 4 bolts holding the stator (windings on a plate) on. carefully tie/tape out of your way. then same thing is done on the clutch side. just take cover off, after draining of course, watch for all the parts that push on clutch, and tie it out of your way. When you got a bunch of crap (broken teeth or what not) there is a weird bearing on the out-shaft that the front chain sproket is mounted on, that can almost lock up the bike to moving, although it runs fine with neutral or clutch in. That could be one of many issues you are faced with... Remember that the Gear Oil lubes the main crank bearings, I suppose, if you sucked a bunch of crap into those bearings, it could cause trouble with running as well?

I think Sherco Ben needs to change his name, to Gas Gas BEN, because I'm feeling like he's constantly baiting us. Asking all these Gas Gas questions, you think if I posted as Ford Fred or BMW Fred, on the Chevy forums, people wouldnt think the same Heheheee. But if he isnt, he's got to learn which gear and how to slip the clutch/modulate your throttle, and that is after even developing the other parts of technique, like how to move your body around on the bike, to get traction on ANY sized bike. Plus AFAIK until you reach 18 I thought you had to ride a 125, Kings rules and all? Last I had heard, us 'mericans were just too fat to ride this pissy small bore bikes. I like 300, if you're going to go, why not go all in? Oh and dont forget we've move ourselves back in time (NO STOP) a couple decades, when the best bikes were "sherpa T 350 (325) cc bikes, not those pithy little beyotch bikes. Why stop at 250? Carb & cylinder Exhaust will decide (of course along with bore size and stroke) how the engine will rev, and where it produces Torque. 125's produce barely enough torque to move the motorcycle on flat ground without addting throttle, my 300 can spit you off from dead stop, in 3rd gear by comparision, crack the throttle on a regular Gas Gas pro, then ride the racing (with Kehin) and see the bike ride totally different, then some years seem more smooth than others. Jetting can modify that, as well as more base gasket under the cylinder where it mates to transmission, and as well as, on newer bikes with the S-3 heads, if equiped you can swap out the head with different compression. all of these things are subtle too, some better riders might say it is a little more than subtle...