dan williams

I like picking on Beta as much as the next guy but consider from 2008 to 2013 there were three completely different frame designs. They do change and refine but when viewed in the same timeframe as completely new bikes like the Ossa a few years ago and the Vertigo now they seem very static. The TRS has much in common with the Jotagas and the GasGas design is more evolution than revolution with the exception of the clutch few years ago. Sometimes big change can be big trouble as Sherco learned with the fuel pump/seat tank combo and Beta’s first beam frame in ‘09. For that reason most people are more comfortable buying a 2nd year of production of a new design than a 1st production. More importantly is a manufacturer and importer/dealer who stands behind their product. Beta replacing all the frames in ‘09 said more to me than any other factor in choosing to stay with Beta. ...and of course bold new graphics?

Many years ago I went to the TdN in Bertrix and got to hang around with the American TdN team. Stunningly beautiful country, friendly people and chocolate to die for. There’s a special place in my heart for Belgium.

Always speculation Beta will go with fuel injection at some point in the near future. The moving around and upgrading of the electrics (110W) points to some major change. But aside from some incremental improvements, my 2018 is very close to my 2013. The 2013 was a massive leap from my ‘08. I guess we won’t know until Beta shows us. I figure if I ever buy another trials bike it’ll be electric anyway. If you fancy a new bike go get one. If “new” technology is important to you buy a Vertigo. If you fancy something else a TRS. Or Beta, Sherco, Scorpa, GasGas. Waiting for the next great thing is just wasted time you could have been out riding.

Dressing the fiber tabs is still worth the effort even on the new bikes.

Hi Eric, Welcome to the clutch thread. The 4T is a slightly different beast as it has all six of the thicker (3mm) fiber plates. I looked at your parts manual and it looks like they use all standard steel plates even for the factory and the basket is aluminum. Some of the earlier "factory" clutches on different models had steel baskets and three oddball steels. Beta is still screwing around with the configurations so it's always a mystery what's going to be in a clutch pack year to year model to model. The glue cleanup is not a big necessity on the newer bikes but the tab polish is still a good way to smooth out the engagement. You should have the stepped spacers on your clutch so you might be able to turn them around for a lighter pull as with the steps facing in they reduce preload on the clutch springs by 1.5mm. I can tell you where to get a set of the 3mm spacers I had made if you PM me. On the bars make sure your lever perches are moved in towards the middle for more leverage. This also cuts down on snapped levers. Also make sure the pivot for the lever is lubed and tightened properly. It may not seem like a big deal but over the course of a long trials it makes a difference.

Well then for lobstah as we call it in New England you need to hop a plane and come to my club here in Maine. Ayuh!

Excellent attitude and you never stop learning. As a rule trials people are patient teachers and will really be on your side to help you ride better. So welcome to the sport! One of us! One of us!

That sounds more a like bent stanchion.

The internals of the 2018s are different. Supposedly volume is now are the same for both legs. I changed the oil in mine and drained out roughly 300cc from each leg. manual says 297g. Replaced the 6.1wt with 2.5wt since the forks seemed far too sluggish in compression. Much cushier now. Don't try to drain forks with bottom screw. Remove them from the clamps and invert them. Yeah it's a pain. The screw on the bottom of the cartridge side doesn't come out properly on the new forks. It just gets loose but doesn't come out and then can't be tightened up again. I fought with mine for about two hours. Many bad words were said. I made a cartridge holder out of PVC pipe and it still wouldn't tighten. Finally resorted to tapping the top of the PVC while seated in the cartridge while turning the screw when it finally caught. The new forks look like the old Paiolis but they are made by Sachs. And after five rides on the new bike the oil that came out was full of aluminum in suspension. Much more than I would have expected. As if the sliders were not properly cleaned after being machined.

Cool, one more data point of clutch tuning. I think you're the first to go thinner plates on the 4T. On my 2Ts I do the clutch fix and run six of the thinner plates with 3mm step washers. That's my recipe and I'm sticking with it.

Since the 4t uses all 3mm “thick” plates you can use the kevlar plates from Barnett. 301-35-10012 Hey Billy, I have a set collecting dust. Wanna try them out?

Sigh

The 4t has all six of the thicker plates.

Finally got out on the new bike with tweaked suspension (heavier springs, 2.5wt fork oil) and not having a cold. Still lovin the VForce! Not a stall all day and this bike is geared up higher than the ‘13.

I had an awful time getting the screw to seat back in the bottom of the cartridge on my ‘18. I don’t know if your forks are the same but the Sachs assembled forks are not the same as the old Paiolis. To get the screw to seat I had to make a holder out of PVC to keep the cartridge from turning and tapped it with a plastic hammer to drive the assembly down to catch the threads on the screw. The whole time the screw would just stay in the fork leg and spin while weeping oil.

When you pull the carb off pull the reed block and have a look. You may have a broken reed.

This pretty much sums it up.

Basic diagnosing skills. You took the master cylinder apart and it looked OK. Reassemble and look elsewhere. Changing to an unknown master cylinder adds another variable that didn't need to be added. So assuming the master cylinder is OK you are left with the hose and the slave cylinder. If there is a leak further down the system you should lose fluid in the master cylinder every time you pump the lever. You should also see the fluid leaking unless it's the slave cylinder seal in which case it's just going to leak into the transmission. I have no idea of the effect of fork fluid in the hydraulics. It's not anything I'd do. If you don't see leakage along the hose I think your slave cylinder is probably compromised. Might also explain the variability in operation before.

Just FYI I went back to the 48 pilot as the 50 made the engine surge a bit rolling on power.

It's always possible the seal was damaged when replaced. It happens even to dealers. Has it leaked since it was replaced or did it just start some time after replacement? Typically a seal will be good for some time if the fork tubes are undamaged. A nick in the tube can damage a seal and will keep damaging seals until it's fixed. Sometimes dirt will get under a seal lip and hold it away from contact with the tube.

Where are you?

If it’s like the Beta it’s a cut allen key, pointy vise-grips many swear words routine. Immediately replaced by a bolt I can get a wrench on.

It’s all strategy. Experianced observers know this but you can only put up with so much abuse. This is where it’s critical to have the support of the sponsoring club. Before you can have a hard line on rules you have to know the trialsmaster will back you up. Nothing makes me less enthusiastic about observing than knowing if I make a hard call someone in the club organization will overturn it because a “top” rider whined until he got his way. If calling to the rules is not supported then it’s not worth the effort and everything is called like a beginner class. “Good job”, pat on the head, NEXT! Years ago I observed a US national and at the observers briefing the NATC rep went into a long diatribe about how everyone was there to have fun and not to be too strict on the rules. One of my buddies raised his hand and said, “So which rules do you want us to ignore?” Pretty much summed it up. Partial enforcement of any rule is how you end up keeping bad rules. It’s also the fastest way to make a sport unfair.

Stock is not a bad bike. The newer clutches are a lot better so plunking around on a stock bike for a while is OK. The 200 is such a sweet motor. You won’t even notice much difference between the stock clutch and the spacers immediately anyway. Where it becomes significant is end of an event after three-four hours on the bike that forearm fatigue makes the clutch finger weak. Then the lighter clutch pull helps. Get to know the bike first. Get some hours in and then you’ll know what you want to change to suit yourself. Maybe you’ll love it stock.

On bike. Does work but airbox still too close to open. Going to replace top bolt with small hex head so I can access from side.