Should We Pull Our Troops Out?

[copemech]

Possibly some of the commenters here have forgotton the fact that inbetween sessions of killing themselves in their own stupid infighting, many of the silly radical *******s would just as well spend their time killing YOU! Where you live! London, Paris, no difference! They do not like you! They are not your friend! Sure thing then, just leave them alone and see what happens! NEXT!

[atomant]

They should all come home. The British army should be available in this country to defend a direct attack on the UK only and not be used as a political pawn in a superpower chess game!

What century are you posting from?

Malibu, it's called expressing an opinion whatever century or archaelogical period you are in. If you have an opinion express it properly, don't just throw in a caustic remark just because you disagree

It's an absurd opinion, so I rightfully treated it as such.

Does Mr. Ant truly believe that the only function of the British Army is to protect from an invasion? In 2007 or beyond? An invasion? Can he possibly be serious?

If an army's main function isn't to defend its host nation then what is it? I didn't say anything about an invasion!

If you remember, Blair stated that the reasons for sending our troops in were that we were at an immediate risk of attack from weapons of mass destruction. If that were true then our troops being sent it would have been a valid reason, hence the virtual across party support at the time. This has since been shown to be complete misinformation and I (like many others) would argue that the real reasons were to do with anglo american relations (and possibly natural resources) and less to do with WMD.

There is also a big problem here in the UK with regard to the British public's perception of the Armed forces. They are not being shown the respect they deserve and people are asking why this is? I have no answer to that but if I were a soldier fighting a war I didn't believe in, for a country that shows me no respect, and then come home to a country that shows me no respect, I would kinda be thinking f*** this! I respect the armed forces and I don't want their lives being put at risk for something I believe to be completely unjust. There ya go!

[malibudon]

What century are you posting from?

It's an absurd opinion, so I rightfully treated it as such.

AtomAnt's opinion is absurd in your eyes, but not in the eyes of many people.

Debate and discuss but respect the right to an opinion, isn't that why Blair and Bush concocted the smoking gun lie in the first place, to give the people of Iraq an opinion, a right to choose their own futures. If it's not the reason then the war in Iraq was nothing more than State Sponsored Bullying.

Unfortunately, I fear your attitude to Atom's valid opinion speaks volumes for global alliances today.......

I see that you don't have respect for my right to an opinion about Mr. Ant's opinion.

Volumes, indeed.

[nigel dabster]

They should all come home. The British army should be available in this country to defend a direct attack on the UK only and not be used as a political pawn in a superpower chess game!

What century are you posting from?

Malibu, it's called expressing an opinion whatever century or archaelogical period you are in. If you have an opinion express it properly, don't just throw in a caustic remark just because you disagree

It's an absurd opinion, so I rightfully treated it as such.

Does Mr. Ant truly believe that the only function of the British Army is to protect from an invasion? In 2007 or beyond? An invasion? Can he possibly be serious?

If an army's main function isn't to defend its host nation then what is it? I didn't say anything about an invasion!

If you remember, Blair stated that the reasons for sending our troops in were that we were at an immediate risk of attack from weapons of mass destruction. If that were true then our troops being sent it would have been a valid reason, hence the virtual across party support at the time. This has since been shown to be complete misinformation and I (like many others) would argue that the real reasons were to do with anglo american relations (and possibly natural resources) and less to do with WMD.

There is also a big problem here in the UK with regard to the British public's perception of the Armed forces. They are not being shown the respect they deserve and people are asking why this is? I have no answer to that but if I were a soldier fighting a war I didn't believe in, for a country that shows me no respect, and then come home to a country that shows me no respect, I would kinda be thinking f*** this! I respect the armed forces and I don't want their lives being put at risk for something I believe to be completely unjust. There ya go!

Blair never did say immediate risk, the threat was perceived by others and believed by blair (and our government which we voted in) the millions spent on inquires have stated that blair was acting in the countries best intrests AT THAT TIME.

What you have put is misinformation, period.

We are there we need to get out.

How that is done is whats happening at the moment. Not quick enough but it is happening.

[malibudon]

If an army's main function isn't to defend its host nation then what is it? I didn't say anything about an invasion!

If you remember, Blair stated that the reasons for sending our troops in were that we were at an immediate risk of attack from weapons of mass destruction. If that were true then our troops being sent it would have been a valid reason, hence the virtual across party support at the time. This has since been shown to be complete misinformation and I (like many others) would argue that the real reasons were to do with anglo american relations (and possibly natural resources) and less to do with WMD.

There is also a big problem here in the UK with regard to the British public's perception of the Armed forces. They are not being shown the respect they deserve and people are asking why this is? I have no answer to that but if I were a soldier fighting a war I didn't believe in, for a country that shows me no respect, and then come home to a country that shows me no respect, I would kinda be thinking f*** this! I respect the armed forces and I don't want their lives being put at risk for something I believe to be completely unjust. There ya go!

I would say that an army's main function is to <i>deter</i> attack. If you have to defend yourself, then your deterrence was inadequate.

Given that, sitting and waiting to be attacked seems like a foolish position. That is the lesson of 9/11/01, which Americans should have learned on 2/26/93. You can't be reactive in the modern world--you must be proactive.

And, I appreciate your more thoughtful and complete explanation of your position. Your initial post certainly opining that the British Army should stay at home until directly attacked certainly smacks of isolationism, which is highly impractical in 2007.

[bilco]

Iraq was just a smoke screen,the real target was Iran,but thing's did'nt exactly turn out the way it should have,as we know.

With iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other,what ya think give Iran abit of a squeeze whilst we're there.

It might look as we're pulling out but no.There's more darkness to come.

Edited October 9, 2007 by bilco

[nigel dabster]

Iraq was just a smoke screen,the real target was Iran,but thing's did'nt exactly turn out the way it should have,as we know.

With iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other,what ya think give Iran abit of a squeeze whilst we're there.

It might look as we're pulling out but no.There's more darkness to come.

........and elvis is still alive, Kenedy's shooting was an fbi hit man, and men didn't walk on the moon

[bilco]

Iraq was just a smoke screen,the real target was Iran,but thing's did'nt exactly turn out the way it should have,as we know.

With iraq on one side and Afghanistan on the other,what ya think give Iran abit of a squeeze whilst we're there.

It might look as we're pulling out but no.There's more darkness to come.

........and elvis is still alive, Kenedy's shooting was an fbi hit man, and men didn't walk on the moon

oh no not another day off mr Dabster.

[pete]

My personal opinion:

We shouldn't have gone there in the 1st place, but now we are there and our government has made a right c0(k up of it we should co-operate with the Americans more closely and clear up a bit! I know we always seem to be clearing up their mess but thats the mystery of politics!

My thoughts are with all those who are out there, not that it means a lot really. All our armed forces have the utmost respect from me, especially the Army. It must be hell being a footslogger out there.

Edit: Sorry paul_thistle, no offence intended. Re-worded!

Edited October 9, 2007 by Pete

[paulthistle]

It's so good of you to take care of us. We just can't control ourselves! All of america is in your debt.

[slapshot 3]

What century are you posting from?

It's an absurd opinion, so I rightfully treated it as such.

AtomAnt's opinion is absurd in your eyes, but not in the eyes of many people.

Debate and discuss but respect the right to an opinion, isn't that why Blair and Bush concocted the smoking gun lie in the first place, to give the people of Iraq an opinion, a right to choose their own futures. If it's not the reason then the war in Iraq was nothing more than State Sponsored Bullying.

Unfortunately, I fear your attitude to Atom's valid opinion speaks volumes for global alliances today.......

I see that you don't have respect for my right to an opinion about Mr. Ant's opinion.

Volumes, indeed.

Wrong Malibu, I have every respect for your opinions, you simply did not express an opinion till much later in the thread, you just launched a glib caustic statement about someone elses, that was my objection, nothing more, nothing less. I am not some Pinko Pacifist who wants to drag our troops home for no other reason than they are there, If I could point you to my original comment :

We make our allegiancies and honour the commitments to them, we've done that and we need to continue to do it to protect those who can't protect themselves. However, I do think it's time that they had the chance to stand on their own.

THAT IS WHY WE ARE THERE

As to comments about terrorism: One Friday night whilst living in Germany we were in town saying goodbye to a colleague, we couldn't get home because a suspect device had been found near the back gates of our base, our young Kids were at home with a young baby sitter, the road was closed and the bomb disposal guys were having a good look at things. This happened the same night as a Mortar blasted a hole in a church in a Garrison in Osnabruck(the IRA scored an own goal there mind you it was the Chapel they bombed). The controlled explosion proved that it was a hoax but it took three days to rebuild the stretch of our fence that the explosion had damaged....terrorism on your doorstep, been there done that.

I KNOW why we put our troops in places we maybe shouldn't, I strongly suspect, like Gizza, there are friends we wished we still had but don't because they have given their lives in the defence of the rights and freedoms we take for granted...

NEXT

Edited October 9, 2007 by Slapshot 3

[gizza5]

My lad is in the R.E.M.E (Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) so when he does go should not be at the sharp end of the battle!!

That is not to say that the mortars are still flying into the bases at places like 'Basra'?

On a lighter note a couple of years ago at the SSDT word had got around that one of the Army team riders was the first Challenger Tank into Basra, all guns blazing knocking over anything that stood in his way..............

Now on the finishing ramp having completed his first SSDT and the crowd informed of his heroics in Iraq he was asked about his last six days his reply was 'I would sooner be back in Basra'

Good reply! and for the record he is in Basra at the moment not much time to ride his trials bike this weekend

[motofire]

Touching and heartbreaking video for sure. It reminds me of one done about the 9-11 atatcks that was set to the background music of Enya. I could only watch it once.

[jezza]

Iraq;

Would the yanks have gone in had there been no oil there------no

Would the brits have gone in had the yanks not gone in---------no

Was the WMD a smoke screen to go in----------------------------yes

Is there any point in them staying there once the infrastrucure is rebuilt------------no

Will it remain a lawless country on the verge of civil war if they go and a power struggle ensue within, to control the wealth from the oil industry--------------yes

Afghanistan;

Are there terrorist training camps there.................yes

Are home grown terrorists benefitting from this.........yes

Should we keep these fanatics on the run and OBL holed-up in a cave to subdue his activities................yes

Could we do this without boots on the ground..........................maybe

Should our troops be treated with more respect when they come home................yes

Should they benefit from not paying council tax and receive discounts in shops/cinemas/eateries...............yes

Has the nation been very slow in recognising what these lads are laying on the line on a day to day basis.................undoubtedly

[boofont]

Should our troops be treated with more respect when they come home................yes

Should they benefit from not paying council tax and receive discounts in shops/cinemas/eateries...............yes

Has the nation been very slow in recognising what these lads are laying on the line on a day to day basis.................undoubtedly

This is so true. Only recently for example did the UK forces get the standard 20 mins a week phone call upgraded to 30... It now equals the same as a prisoner! The council tax thing is an insult when our American cousins don't pay any tax when they're away from home.

I remember one trip away I did, staying in tents for two months in Oman with no air con etc. The only water we had at the camp site was bottled that was left in a stacked pallet in the sun. To add insult to injury the EFI (combat Spar shop that the Brits have to pay through the nose to buy stuff) stocked cock all of any thing nice or useful but did have a stunning range of big profit perfume and after shave. Like you really need that on a huge camp site full of blokes in the middle of a desert!

My view having been there? Bring us home! Either that or look after us!

Edited October 9, 2007 by boofont