old trials fanatic Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 It's like everything, there are bikes out there costing 500 tops look like a bag of **** but the rider can ride them well. The idea of throwing a tump of money at a bike is no use if you can't ride it well imho, you're wasting money ?? As they say "if you cant build it right build it bright" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty250nl Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 How about hybrids? One of my bikes is a Moto Guzzi engine (1969/70) in a SWM frame (1980/81). Do I get to ride a class of my own? I ride classic twinshock competition in Holland (medium skilled) and I'm always welcome. This bike is not about winning (the bike could, but I can't :>), but to extend the pleasure in the sport by building and/or maintaining your own special bike. I really like the looks of a converted TY250 or a converted Honda. Last year I competed with a 1986 Fantic 301 progress 2 (monoshock), but I had to join the modern mono's class, which with my skills is a lonely route. The twinshock concept I like most is the american ITSA concept, ride the twinshock you bring! Kind regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedronicman Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 How about hybrids?One of my bikes is a Moto Guzzi engine (1969/70) in a SWM frame (1980/81). Do I get to ride a class of my own? I ride classic twinshock competition in Holland (medium skilled) and I'm always welcome. This bike is not about winning (the bike could, but I can't :>), but to extend the pleasure in the sport by building and/or maintaining your own special bike. I really like the looks of a converted TY250 or a converted Honda. Last year I competed with a 1986 Fantic 301 progress 2 (monoshock), but I had to join the modern mono's class, which with my skills is a lonely route. The twinshock concept I like most is the american ITSA concept, ride the twinshock you bring! Kind regards. I don't se any problems with that as you are using period (pre monoshock) year engine and frame , you are not using a mono engine or chassis or making the old frame or engine radically different so as to be like a modern bike. In some if the trials i do there is a guy who rides an SWM with a Honda TL 125 type engine in , it seems to be quite good. As long as people dont take the p@@@ and take things way too far i dont see a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Because the land owner doesnt like modern bikes and he classes air cooled monos as a modern bike. His views on coverted monos is the same. Put simply he doesnt want them on his land. It's his land and his choice but it is one of the more favoured venues that the club uses and will be sorely missed. After further discussions with the land owner in question over a beer or three he has asked me to clarify a coupe of things. 1. It's not that he "doesnt like modern bikes", he argueably is the person who first introduced them, it's that he doesnt like the damage to the land that modern bikes and the modern technique of their riders does to the land in question. 2. He is , like me, very anti the converted monoshock issue and feels that it is not the way to go however that alone would not result in the loss of the land to our club. 3. The land in question has a theoretical limit of 50 ish riders due to complaints from locals about inconsiderate and illegal parking. All vehicles must be off the public highway. 4. There have been a lot of complaints from locals about the "attitude" of some and i state categorically some of the riders on those bikes but no complaints about riders on Classics and Twinshocks. On balance therefore he has decided that his land will only be available to clubs who cater solely for Classic Pre 65 and Twinshocks. Incidentally i have also heard this morning of another ocal venue that is now also not available to clubs wanting to use the land for modern trials due to the behaviour of the riders riding across farmland and causing damage. The particular landowner has been a trials enthusiast for years and i remember chatting to him many times on Pipeline so he is NOT anti bike but does have to consider his farm and his business and doesnt need the hassle he has been getting so has decided to tke this course of action. Anyway possibly straying a ittle off topic so back to the thread. Just wanted to set the record straight Edited November 4, 2009 by Old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Not to jump on one side or the other ,But You have to give credit to the ingenuity of some of our ITSA members .... The bike pictured has been converted to fit ITSA modern twinshock rules . Drum brakes , air cooled , Twin shocks... And knowing the owner/builder of this bike I would have have to say that it will only be ridden in good old no stop twinshock events ... And it was probably built just to see if it would work ... Follow the link ! Montesa 315 (220cc Yamaha Blaster engine , Fabricated Drum brakes , Sano Twinshock instalation !) Glenn Better yet , look at the photo below ... Thanks doug , I couldn't get it to load correctly ! (not the sharpest tool in the shed and all !!!) Edited November 4, 2009 by axulsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Not to jump on one side or the other ,But You have to give credit to the ingenuity of some of our ITSA members .... The bike pictured has been converted to fit ITSA modern twinshock rules . Drum brakes , air cooled , Twin shocks... And knowing the owner/builder of this bike I would have have to say that it will only be ridden in good old no stop twinshock events ... And it was probably built just to see if it would work ... Follow the link ! Montesa 315 (220cc Yamaha Blaster engine , Fabricated Drum brakes , Sano Twinshock instalation !)Glenn http://itsa.clubexpress.com/popup.aspx?pag...;item_id=126271 I'll have to attend some ITSA events next year! Edited November 4, 2009 by htrdoug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yeah we have a load of fun And you'll get to see some of the best (restored , customized , homemade , Tricked out , State of the Art ...) Twinshock bikes on this side of the pond getting thrown at rocks and logs and whatever else is available just for the sake of doing it and having some old school hardcore FUN ! And I don't think any of us truly cares who wins what , As long as your smiling while you do it ! Just ask my kids ,I get real depressed when I can't afford the trek to a ITSA event . Trials by Trials riders For Trials riders ... I think the motto say's it all ... And on a side note , one of a kind twinshock bikes are kinda encouraged here ... Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yeah we have a load of fun And you'll get to see some of the best (restored , customized , homemade , Tricked out , State of the Art ...) Twinshock bikes on this side of the pond getting thrown at rocks and logs and whatever else is available just for the sake of doing it and having some old school hardcore FUN ! And I don't think any of us truly cares who wins what , As long as your smiling while you do it ! Just ask my kids ,I get real depressed when I can't afford the trek to a ITSA event . Trials by Trials riders For Trials riders ... I think the motto say's it all ...And on a side note , one of a kind twinshock bikes are kinda encouraged here ... Glenn Looks a beautiful bike by the way but if that is allowed at your events why would anybody in their right mind want to ride a proper twinshock ?? might as well just take the engine out build one like the one in the photo and crush the rest of the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Looks a beautiful bike by the way but if that is allowed at your events why would anybody in their right mind want to ride a proper twinshock ?? might as well just take the engine out build one like the one in the photo and crush the rest of the bike. classes for everyone,Run Whatcha Brung! ITSA Rules: Tech Section Edited November 4, 2009 by htrdoug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne_weedon Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I quite like the sound of that in a way, but not so sure about the changing bike one. One wonders that in twenty years time will the current and past mono's have such a classic status as the original twinshocks have now? It used to be that some people bought twinshocks as a very cheap way into the sport, now of course it's much cheaper to buy even a 4-5 year old "modern(ish)" bike. I'm not even sure such a hybrid as pictured would have such an advantage certainly not in my hands anyway! Wayne.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I quite like the sound of that in a way, but not so sure about the changing bike one.One wonders that in twenty years time will the current and past mono's have such a classic status as the original twinshocks have now? It used to be that some people bought twinshocks as a very cheap way into the sport, now of course it's much cheaper to buy even a 4-5 year old "modern(ish)" bike. I'm not even sure such a hybrid as pictured would have such an advantage certainly not in my hands anyway! Wayne.... I'm not sure about the changing bike rule either,has me convinced that I need a backup vintage bike! I think the idea is trials is such a niche in the US that many have to drive a long way to get to any trials event,If you think your bike may be dodgy you might stay home,better to go and give it a whirl,even if you have to switch bikes to finish the event at least you attended,If it became an issue with guys swapping out the bikes to suit individual sections then I think the rules should call for a five point penalty for each bike swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I think you have to ask yourself why would someone build one of these bikes, and the answer is to gain an advantage or more to put it more bluntly cheat. I dont buy the engineering side of the arguement at all as anyone who competes in twinshock trials will tell you there is ample room to use you skills in setting up one of these older bikes. The brakes, suspension, carburation etc can all be tweeked within the rules and restoring and keeping one of these bikes competitive is more difficult and satisfying than maintaining a modern mono. If you want to test your engineering skills and build a 'special' well why dont they convert a bully or an ossa into a mono, put disc brakes on it and go and compete in the mono classes and I am sure no one will complain as clearly there will be no advantage. Any organisers who allow these bikes to compete are not doing anyone any favours, they are just fueling the problem. For those of you who can remember when the monos came out in 84 it took about one year for all the twinshocks to disappear from trials and almost the entire entry to be yamaha mounted such was the advantage of this style of bike. They were at least 20lbs lighter, the clutch worked as did the brakes and suspension not to mention the electronic ignition, all in all a huge improvement over the twinshocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I think you have to ask yourself why would someone build one of these bikes, and the answer is to gain an advantage or more to put it more bluntly cheat. I dont buy the engineering side of the arguement at all as anyone who competes in twinshock trials will tell you there is ample room to use you skills in setting up one of these older bikes. The brakes, suspension, carburation etc can all be tweeked within the rules and restoring and keeping one of these bikes competitive is more difficult and satisfying than maintaining a modern mono. If you want to test your engineering skills and build a 'special' well why dont they convert a bully or an ossa into a mono, put disc brakes on it and go and compete in the mono classes and I am sure no one will complain as clearly there will be no advantage. Any organisers who allow these bikes to compete are not doing anyone any favours, they are just fueling the problem. For those of you who can remember when the monos came out in 84 it took about one year for all the twinshocks to disappear from trials and almost the entire entry to be yamaha mounted such was the advantage of this style of bike. They were at least 20lbs lighter, the clutch worked as did the brakes and suspension not to mention the electronic ignition, all in all a huge improvement over the twinshocks. Perfectly put Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedronicman Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Perfectly put Ditto Certain people should take note! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I think you have to ask yourself why would someone build one of these bikes, and the answer is to gain an advantage or more to put it more bluntly cheat. I dont buy the engineering side of the arguement at all as anyone who competes in twinshock trials will tell you there is ample room to use you skills in setting up one of these older bikes. The brakes, suspension, carburation etc can all be tweeked within the rules and restoring and keeping one of these bikes competitive is more difficult and satisfying than maintaining a modern mono. If you want to test your engineering skills and build a 'special' well why dont they convert a bully or an ossa into a mono, put disc brakes on it and go and compete in the mono classes and I am sure no one will complain as clearly there will be no advantage. Any organisers who allow these bikes to compete are not doing anyone any favours, they are just fueling the problem. For those of you who can remember when the monos came out in 84 it took about one year for all the twinshocks to disappear from trials and almost the entire entry to be yamaha mounted such was the advantage of this style of bike. They were at least 20lbs lighter, the clutch worked as did the brakes and suspension not to mention the electronic ignition, all in all a huge improvement over the twinshocks. What do you do if 50% and more people are on "cheat " bikes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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